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-We are at a critical juncture
for our city.

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-What does it look like
to have social equity

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through social policy?

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-Retired King County
Judge Cathy Moore

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and social equity consultant
ChrisTiana ObeySumner

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beat out eight other candidates

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for a chance to replace
Debora Juarez

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on the Seattle City Council.

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-Nice to meet you.
I'm ChrisTiana.

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-A renter, ObeySumner says

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housing is a top priority
for District 5,

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which stretches from Northgate
to Lake City

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and Greenwood
to Bitter Lake.

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-My name is Cathy Moore.

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-A recent homeowner,
Moore left the bench

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to advocate for social change

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in a city
undergoing many changes.

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Will D5 voters favor
a longtime judge

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or a small business owner?

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-It is not humane,
nor is it safe

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to have people living
in tents on our streets.

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-The candidates debate.

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-What I do oppose is sweeps.

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-The race to represent
North Seattle in District 5,

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next on "City Inside/Out."

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♪♪

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♪♪

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Welcome to this edition
of "City Inside/Out."

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I'm your host, Brian Callanan.

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The battle for the Seattle
City Council's District 5 seat

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yielded 10 primary candidates,
more than any other district.

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Former Judge Cathy Moore

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and social equity consultant
ChrisTiana ObeySumner

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emerged as the top choices

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to replace council president
Debora Juarez,

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who decided not to run
for a third term.

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The two candidates have
very different backgrounds

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and different stances on issues
like public safety,

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homelessness, and more.

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This week, our focus
is on North Seattle

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and the race for D5.

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-My name is Cathy Moore.

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-Former Superior Court
Judge Cathy Moore...

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-I'm ChrisTiana.

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-...and ChrisTiana ObeySumner,
a social equity consultant,

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are the lead contenders

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for Seattle City Council
District 5,

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from Northgate to Lake City
and Greenwood to Bitter Lake.

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-I'm not a new face
to City Hall.

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-We are at a critical juncture.

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-Moore led a 10-person
D5 primary

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with 31% of the vote,

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and says she has a lot
to offer the district

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after three decades
in public service.

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-I would really like
an opportunity

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to take everything that I know
and have experienced

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and work upstream
and proactively.

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-ObeySumner earned 24%
of the primary vote

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and says in running their own
consulting business,

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they're well aligned
with D5's working families.

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-I have to work 40 hours a week
in addition to campaigning.

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There's a need to both
have that knowledge of policy

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and how to do this job,

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and a wisdom
of lived experience.

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-That experience for ObeySumner

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includes a career
as a small business owner

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and burlesque performer,

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overcoming a life
of chronic illness.

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-I'd be the first openly
autistic City Council member

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in the country.
-The former co-chair

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of the Seattle Disabilities
Commission

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and Renters' Commission says
housing is their top priority.

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-It speaks to
the economic justice issue,

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the transit levy,
even down to the contract

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with the Seattle
Police Department.

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Everything, in a lot of ways,

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has this sort of
interconnectedness

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through housing.

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-Moore has chaired the Seattle
Human Rights Commission

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and has served as Seattle's
interim city clerk.

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-So, I have directly worked
at getting legislation passed.

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-She says public safety
is the top priority

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for her district
and the entire city.

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And while Moore supports
911 alternatives...

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-I want to make sure
that we actually get

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those programs up and running.

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-...she's calling for increased
police hiring, too.

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-So, right now,
we don't have enough police

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to actually adequately respond
to priority-one calls.

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-With District 5 incumbent
Debora Juarez

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deciding not to run again,

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it's a longtime public servant

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up against
a social justice advocate,

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with some different ideas
on what it means to replace her.

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-I would like to very much
continue in her path

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of being a strong
and effective advocate.

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-A natural part of life

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that is important
for progress is change.

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-Well, here we are with the
candidates for District 5,

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Cathy Moore
and ChrisTiana ObeySumner.

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Thank you both for being here.
Let's get started here.

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We had a coin flip
before the show.

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And Cathy, you'll be speaking
first in opening statement

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of why you're running.

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One minute, please.
-Great.

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Well, thank you very much for
having me here today, Brian.

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My name is Cathy Moore, and I'm
running for Seattle City Council

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for District 5.

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I'm a lifelong Seattleite,

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former King County
Superior Court judge,

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former Seattle city clerk,
former public defender.

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I'm a small business owner.

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I am a community volunteer,

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and I'm the mother of three
Seattle Public School graduates.

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I have made public service
my life's work.

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I have spent the last
three decades in our community,

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in the frontlines,

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trying to improve people's lives
and broken systems,

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and I want to bring that
lifetime of relevant experience

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to the job of creating a city
that works for all of us.

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And to that end,
my priorities in this race

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are the priorities
of my district,

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00:05:08,133 --> 00:05:11,834
which are public safety,
homelessness, and affordability.

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And I look forward to discussing
that further today.

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-And we definitely will do that.

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ChrisTiana,
if you wouldn't mind,

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an opening statement.
Please keep it to a minute.

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-Thank you so much again
for having me, as well.

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I am running for
Seattle City Council District 5

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because I have worked
in this city

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for the last 13-plus years,

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and I've done that
in so many different ways --

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as a case manager,
direct social service worker,

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00:05:36,801 --> 00:05:37,934
co-chair of the Seattle
Disabilities

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and Renters' Commission,

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and as a policy advocacy
and social equity consultant.

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What's really exciting is
that I have been asked to run

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about every two years
for the last six

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since I ran for
the transparency seat in 2017,

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and I am happy
to amplify the toolkit

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and the successes I've had,

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and I know we'll be getting
into more details about that.

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So, I just want to give
that little teaser.

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-Okay. I want to expand,
if I could, on your backgrounds.

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You've both mentioned them
to me.

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I know in talking in the field
and in our setup here, too,

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you have some
different stories to tell.

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And, Cathy, could you expand
on that a little bit?

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A parent, a judge,
an interim city clerk,

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and why you think
that experience is important

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00:06:17,801 --> 00:06:19,834
to bring to the City Council?

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00:06:19,834 --> 00:06:21,734
-Sure. Well, I mean,

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a lot of what the City Council
is dealing with right now

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is the intersection between
the criminal legal system,

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the behavioral health system,
and the social service system.

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So, certainly as a public
defender representing families

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in the child welfare system,

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representing individuals
in the behavioral health system,

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and individuals
in the criminal legal system.

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And then, as a judge, seeing --
working in all those systems,

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making decisions
that affected people's lives

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and those decisions,

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I have both
the professional experience

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of being an advocate
for individuals,

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but also
the professional experience

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of seeing what the unintended
consequences can be of laws,

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but also being in a position
of having to uphold the law

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00:07:02,534 --> 00:07:05,934
and make decisions that affect
people's daily lives

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00:07:05,934 --> 00:07:08,000
in very profound ways.

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As the Seattle City Clerk,

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my job was to oversee
a staff of 30,

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a budget of ¢3 million,

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to make sure that
the record of the council

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was properly maintained,

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to work with all nine
council members, which I did,

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in an effort to get

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a reclassification ordinance
passed,

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which greatly increased
the salaries

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for everybody
who was in that office.

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And then as a parent,
I also understand

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the struggles of trying
to raise children

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in a somewhat -- not somewhat --
a very inexpensive city --

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a very expensive city --
excuse me --

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trying to find appropriate
child care while also working

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and just struggling
to make ends meet day to day.

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-Okay.
Thank you for that.

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ChrisTiana, I want to talk
to you about this, as well.

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You talked to us about this
out in the field,

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your background
as a social equity consultant,

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a housing coordinator,

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a person with multiple
disabilities,

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a burlesque performer, too.

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Talk to us about
your life experiences,

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00:08:02,367 --> 00:08:04,267
how they've shaped you
into being possibly

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00:08:04,267 --> 00:08:06,467
a Seattle City Council member.

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00:08:06,467 --> 00:08:10,367
-Yes, so, I grew up in a family
that was very civically engaged.

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Especially if one
of those disabilities

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is being autistic and being born
in the early-mid '80s,

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I was not given the benefit

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of the Americans
with Disabilities Act

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going through public school.

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And so, my mom really taught me
about disability justice

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and fighting for policy change

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and fighting for
what truly is equitable,

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at the end of the day.

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Before that was even something
that I knew about,

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00:08:32,467 --> 00:08:35,267
that carried me
when I came here to Seattle.

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Of course, there has been
a lifetime as a youth leader

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before I came here
to be able to do that work.

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And through that,
as soon as I hit the campus

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00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,601
and being able to advocate
for changes,

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amplify the needs
of our communities,

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especially when Seattle U
is thinking

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00:08:52,667 --> 00:08:56,000
about banning same-sex marriages
in St. Ignatius.

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Having that go
towards the work at DESC,

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00:08:59,167 --> 00:09:00,901
being a member of SEIU 1199

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00:09:00,901 --> 00:09:03,133
and talking about racialized
ableism in the workplace,

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00:09:03,133 --> 00:09:05,834
that leading to epiphanies
of equity,

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00:09:05,834 --> 00:09:07,834
working with
over 250 businesses,

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00:09:07,834 --> 00:09:10,367
governments, and organizations
across the country,

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00:09:10,367 --> 00:09:13,400
but concentrated here,
and being one of those people

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00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,400
who are always called
back-of-house,

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00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,267
policy strategists,
policy theorists.

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How do you put this in place?

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00:09:18,567 --> 00:09:20,100
How do you make this go?

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00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:22,801
What is actually
going to lead to success

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00:09:22,801 --> 00:09:24,567
and effective success?

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00:09:24,567 --> 00:09:25,767
That's what I've been called.

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And so, all of that
lived experience

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00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,601
both that knowledge
and that wisdom comes into it.

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00:09:32,601 --> 00:09:33,701
-ChrisTiana, I want
to stick with you,

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00:09:33,701 --> 00:09:35,067
and let's talk
about public safety.

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00:09:35,067 --> 00:09:37,133
So, this summer,
the Seattle Police Department

234
00:09:37,133 --> 00:09:40,033
put out a report that showed
the time that it took officers

235
00:09:40,033 --> 00:09:41,901
to respond to crimes
in the North Precinct,

236
00:09:41,901 --> 00:09:43,300
which includes District 5,

237
00:09:43,300 --> 00:09:44,634
was longer
than any other precinct --

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00:09:44,634 --> 00:09:45,934
the worst in the city.

239
00:09:45,934 --> 00:09:48,501
Priority-one calls,
like robberies or shots fired,

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00:09:48,501 --> 00:09:50,467
took more than nine minutes
to get a response.

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00:09:50,467 --> 00:09:53,267
The SPD aims for seven
or less on those calls.

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What do you make
of those numbers?

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00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,901
Does Seattle need
to hire more officers?

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00:09:56,901 --> 00:09:57,934
Tell us about your plans

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00:09:57,934 --> 00:10:00,167
to improve public safety
in District 5.

246
00:10:00,167 --> 00:10:02,267
-Yeah, I think
it's absolutely terrible

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00:10:02,267 --> 00:10:05,400
because I really --
if I'm having, for myself,

248
00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:06,567
a priority-one call,

249
00:10:06,567 --> 00:10:08,901
I really want a police officer
to show up.

250
00:10:08,901 --> 00:10:11,100
What I have seen, however,

251
00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:15,067
is because there have been
these growing issues

252
00:10:15,067 --> 00:10:19,033
that we've experienced,
as well as growing concerns,

253
00:10:19,033 --> 00:10:20,901
we've relied
on the police a lot.

254
00:10:20,901 --> 00:10:24,567
Not only has the community
sort of been saying this,

255
00:10:24,567 --> 00:10:26,267
but the police
have been saying this,

256
00:10:26,267 --> 00:10:27,567
that they are
working out of purview,

257
00:10:27,567 --> 00:10:29,033
they're working out of scope,

258
00:10:29,033 --> 00:10:31,100
and that there's so much
that we're asking them to do.

259
00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:34,734
So, in a lot of ways,
when I talk about,

260
00:10:34,734 --> 00:10:37,200
let's see what those areas
and services are

261
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,501
that are out of purview
and scope

262
00:10:39,501 --> 00:10:43,801
and reallocate that
to existing community services,

263
00:10:43,801 --> 00:10:45,200
alternative community services

264
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,133
to priority, you know,
three, four calls, right?

265
00:10:49,133 --> 00:10:50,167
Co-responder, perhaps.

266
00:10:50,167 --> 00:10:52,868
And priority three,
priority two.

267
00:10:52,868 --> 00:10:55,567
And then police directly
in priority one.

268
00:10:55,567 --> 00:10:57,334
That's actually out of respect
for police.

269
00:10:57,334 --> 00:11:01,133
When I read
the Police Enforcement

270
00:11:01,133 --> 00:11:03,133
Research Foundation's report,

271
00:11:03,133 --> 00:11:04,534
they said
the number-one reason

272
00:11:04,534 --> 00:11:07,033
for the issue of recruitment
and retention for police --

273
00:11:07,033 --> 00:11:08,601
so, going all the way
back to 2016 --

274
00:11:08,601 --> 00:11:10,000
was wellness and burnout.

275
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,868
So, we want to make sure
that we have police

276
00:11:12,868 --> 00:11:15,234
until we can increase
that recruitment.

277
00:11:15,234 --> 00:11:16,968
And that's really what I think
is going to increase

278
00:11:16,968 --> 00:11:18,501
our community safety,
at the end of the day.

279
00:11:18,501 --> 00:11:20,067
-Thank you.
Cathy, some thoughts about this?

280
00:11:20,067 --> 00:11:21,767
Maybe about what
your opponent is saying?

281
00:11:21,767 --> 00:11:24,000
Your approach to public safety
might be a little different

282
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,934
in terms of hiring
officers, etc.

283
00:11:25,934 --> 00:11:27,100
What have we got?
-Right.

284
00:11:27,100 --> 00:11:29,234
So, I'm the only candidate
in this race

285
00:11:29,234 --> 00:11:31,400
that has consistently said
from the beginning

286
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,267
that we need to hire
more police officers.

287
00:11:34,267 --> 00:11:38,033
We need to hire at least 300
to 400 additional officers,

288
00:11:38,033 --> 00:11:41,167
because we are not in a position
where they are able to respond

289
00:11:41,167 --> 00:11:47,934
to priority-one calls
in a timely manner.

290
00:11:47,934 --> 00:11:50,701
I would note that
my opponent told Real Change

291
00:11:50,701 --> 00:11:53,834
that they supported
cutting the police budget.

292
00:11:53,834 --> 00:11:57,634
They also said that
they supported that we needed

293
00:11:57,634 --> 00:12:03,100
to reassess our over-reliance
on police and the police model.

294
00:12:03,100 --> 00:12:04,934
They have also supported
the position,

295
00:12:04,934 --> 00:12:06,801
which was with
the solidarity budget

296
00:12:06,801 --> 00:12:08,901
that was put forth in 2020,

297
00:12:08,901 --> 00:12:10,234
with the defund movement.

298
00:12:10,234 --> 00:12:12,501
And the purpose
of that budget was

299
00:12:12,501 --> 00:12:15,567
to reallocate funding
out of the police department

300
00:12:15,567 --> 00:12:18,734
into what we're seeing now
with the care department.

301
00:12:18,734 --> 00:12:21,100
While that's certainly
a valid approach,

302
00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:22,601
the ultimate goal

303
00:12:22,601 --> 00:12:25,701
is to completely defund
the police budget

304
00:12:25,701 --> 00:12:31,734
and have only money
for non-armed responders.

305
00:12:31,734 --> 00:12:33,133
The problem with that is that

306
00:12:33,133 --> 00:12:36,367
we are always going
to need armed response.

307
00:12:36,367 --> 00:12:37,968
And also, the problem is that

308
00:12:37,968 --> 00:12:41,033
while it's incredibly important
to amply fund

309
00:12:41,033 --> 00:12:44,701
this alternative
co-responder model,

310
00:12:44,701 --> 00:12:48,501
by doing so, we are not going
to lessen the police need

311
00:12:48,501 --> 00:12:51,501
to be able to respond
to priority-one calls.

312
00:12:51,501 --> 00:12:54,167
They are not overburdened
because they are responding

313
00:12:54,167 --> 00:12:57,601
to priority-three
or -four calls.

314
00:12:57,601 --> 00:13:00,167
They are overburdened because
they don't have enough staff

315
00:13:00,167 --> 00:13:01,934
to respond
to the actual violence

316
00:13:01,934 --> 00:13:03,801
that is happening
in our community,

317
00:13:03,801 --> 00:13:05,334
and the only way to resolve that

318
00:13:05,334 --> 00:13:07,033
is to increase
the police numbers.

319
00:13:07,033 --> 00:13:08,601
-Yeah. ChrisTiana, please.

320
00:13:08,601 --> 00:13:11,100
-Yeah, I just want to say,
to clarify a couple of things,

321
00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:13,133
number one, we have --

322
00:13:13,133 --> 00:13:17,100
the city of Seattle in 2019
actually proctored a study

323
00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:19,133
that showed that,
depending on who you ask --

324
00:13:19,133 --> 00:13:20,634
even Chief Diaz spoke on it --

325
00:13:20,634 --> 00:13:23,734
between 40 and 60%
of the calls at SPD

326
00:13:23,734 --> 00:13:27,400
don't actually have to be
responded to by SPD.

327
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:28,934
The second thing I think
is really important

328
00:13:28,934 --> 00:13:32,601
is when I talk about
reallocating the resources,

329
00:13:32,601 --> 00:13:34,901
or really
reallocating the purview,

330
00:13:34,901 --> 00:13:36,501
it's not for the defund.

331
00:13:36,501 --> 00:13:40,434
I will say that if we're just
slashing the budget by 50%,

332
00:13:40,434 --> 00:13:43,701
but we don't have
a plan in place, you know,

333
00:13:43,701 --> 00:13:45,400
yes, it's going to give money
to the communities,

334
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:46,868
but that's not necessarily
going to address

335
00:13:46,868 --> 00:13:50,033
this issue of
community safety directly.

336
00:13:50,033 --> 00:13:51,934
When I talk about
reallocating purview,

337
00:13:51,934 --> 00:13:55,167
I would be looking at
the average cost of the services

338
00:13:55,167 --> 00:13:58,734
when they respond
to those services,

339
00:13:58,734 --> 00:14:01,200
and it would be
from that estimate

340
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,033
that we would look
at the average cost of them

341
00:14:03,033 --> 00:14:04,434
responding to those services

342
00:14:04,434 --> 00:14:06,634
for priority-three,
priority four calls

343
00:14:06,634 --> 00:14:08,334
that would be reallocated.

344
00:14:08,334 --> 00:14:09,968
It wouldn't be a hack-slash.

345
00:14:09,968 --> 00:14:12,167
And finally, when I talk about

346
00:14:12,167 --> 00:14:13,868
having a community-responder
model

347
00:14:13,868 --> 00:14:15,434
or having a reimagining
of police,

348
00:14:15,434 --> 00:14:18,567
I talk about the county
I grew up in,

349
00:14:18,567 --> 00:14:19,834
which is Camden County,
New Jersey,

350
00:14:19,834 --> 00:14:22,400
which was considered
the murder capital of the world.

351
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,634
They did completely overhaul
their police department

352
00:14:25,634 --> 00:14:29,901
and had a decrease of 70%
in homicides and crimes,

353
00:14:29,901 --> 00:14:33,033
to the point that
as municipal police,

354
00:14:33,033 --> 00:14:35,701
they had more police
at the end of the day

355
00:14:35,701 --> 00:14:37,200
than they did
when they were originally

356
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,200
in the police department.

357
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,701
So, as long as we are working

358
00:14:40,701 --> 00:14:43,834
towards the police
having wellness,

359
00:14:43,834 --> 00:14:45,601
that they're able to focus
on the calls

360
00:14:45,601 --> 00:14:47,467
that we need them
to focus on,

361
00:14:47,467 --> 00:14:50,200
and if we have the ability
to do something different

362
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,901
and transformative, why not?

363
00:14:51,901 --> 00:14:54,434
-Okay, Cathy,
a quick rejoinder, if you could.

364
00:14:54,434 --> 00:14:56,734
-So, I think if you look
at the Camden police model,

365
00:14:56,734 --> 00:15:00,067
you'll see that they,
as ChrisTiana has just noted,

366
00:15:00,067 --> 00:15:02,267
they actually doubled
their police department.

367
00:15:02,267 --> 00:15:05,567
They restarted over.
They didn't eliminate police.

368
00:15:05,567 --> 00:15:08,467
They now have twice
as many police officers.

369
00:15:08,467 --> 00:15:09,534
They are in the community.

370
00:15:09,534 --> 00:15:11,200
They're doing, you know,

371
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,434
barbecues and outreach
to the community,

372
00:15:13,434 --> 00:15:15,968
which certainly we should be
doing in our community.

373
00:15:15,968 --> 00:15:18,634
But they're also heavily reliant
on surveillance.

374
00:15:18,634 --> 00:15:20,868
They're basically
doing soft policing.

375
00:15:20,868 --> 00:15:23,868
There are a lot of concerns
about enhanced surveillance

376
00:15:23,868 --> 00:15:25,801
as a way of policing people.

377
00:15:25,801 --> 00:15:28,567
Additionally, I think
the record is clear

378
00:15:28,567 --> 00:15:32,067
that my opponent stated
to Real Change

379
00:15:32,067 --> 00:15:34,501
they supported cutting
the police budget,

380
00:15:34,501 --> 00:15:35,834
and reallocation

381
00:15:35,834 --> 00:15:40,167
is basically a repackaging
of the defund philosophy.

382
00:15:40,167 --> 00:15:41,834
-Here's another issue
that I think might draw

383
00:15:41,834 --> 00:15:43,334
some differences here.

384
00:15:43,334 --> 00:15:45,334
I want to talk about
the issue of public drug use,

385
00:15:45,334 --> 00:15:46,434
drug possession.

386
00:15:46,434 --> 00:15:47,801
There was a drawn-out battle
over this.

387
00:15:47,801 --> 00:15:49,133
As you know, the City Council

388
00:15:49,133 --> 00:15:51,534
passed a measure this fall
allowing the city attorney

389
00:15:51,534 --> 00:15:54,334
to prosecute these cases
as gross misdemeanors.

390
00:15:54,334 --> 00:15:56,868
The mayor says he wants to lead
with treatment and diversion.

391
00:15:56,868 --> 00:15:59,234
Resources, of course, there
are limited, as always.

392
00:15:59,234 --> 00:16:00,567
Cathy, I just wanted
to ask you this.

393
00:16:00,567 --> 00:16:02,400
Did the city get this right?

394
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,934
-I hope so.
I mean, I think that ultimately

395
00:16:04,934 --> 00:16:07,167
that was the intent
of this legislation

396
00:16:07,167 --> 00:16:10,901
was to make sure that we have an
additional tool in our tool belt

397
00:16:10,901 --> 00:16:15,133
to deal with the incredible
fentanyl epidemic

398
00:16:15,133 --> 00:16:16,901
and methamphetamine epidemic

399
00:16:16,901 --> 00:16:18,734
that we're seeing
on our streets.

400
00:16:18,734 --> 00:16:22,534
So, the one thing that I think
is important about this bill

401
00:16:22,534 --> 00:16:26,467
is that at every juncture,
the instruction is

402
00:16:26,467 --> 00:16:30,167
to pursue diversion
into treatment.

403
00:16:30,167 --> 00:16:31,968
And so, that is
incredibly important

404
00:16:31,968 --> 00:16:35,501
that the council makes sure
that there is sufficient funding

405
00:16:35,501 --> 00:16:38,000
to create
a treatment infrastructure.

406
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,934
And one of my criticisms
of the current council

407
00:16:40,934 --> 00:16:43,868
is that they had
two years or longer

408
00:16:43,868 --> 00:16:46,267
to actually create
such treatment infrastructure,

409
00:16:46,267 --> 00:16:47,767
and they did not do so.

410
00:16:47,767 --> 00:16:49,400
They did not go down to Olympia

411
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,133
and advocate for an additional
part of the pie,

412
00:16:52,133 --> 00:16:53,868
which they could have done.

413
00:16:53,868 --> 00:16:57,267
So, and I want to point out
that in a recent study

414
00:16:57,267 --> 00:16:58,901
that just came out recently,

415
00:16:58,901 --> 00:17:01,968
you know, 81% of people
surveyed believed

416
00:17:01,968 --> 00:17:04,400
that the council's
hands-off approach

417
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,968
to the public drug use

418
00:17:06,968 --> 00:17:11,000
has actually been contributing
to the exponential explosion

419
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,367
in street crime
and just basic public misery.

420
00:17:15,367 --> 00:17:18,033
And so, it is something
that we need to deal with.

421
00:17:18,033 --> 00:17:20,200
It's also important
to keep a close eye

422
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:25,801
on what the the racial
enforcement stats are.

423
00:17:25,801 --> 00:17:27,234
And I was really pleased to see

424
00:17:27,234 --> 00:17:29,534
that there are
very robust reporting --

425
00:17:29,534 --> 00:17:31,868
data collection
and reporting requirements

426
00:17:31,868 --> 00:17:33,601
in the bill that was passed.

427
00:17:33,601 --> 00:17:35,767
It's important that we keep
the city attorney coming

428
00:17:35,767 --> 00:17:37,601
and talking to the council
about that.

429
00:17:37,601 --> 00:17:38,801
-Thank you.
ChrisTiana,

430
00:17:38,801 --> 00:17:40,901
I think you might
have a different tack on this

431
00:17:40,901 --> 00:17:42,501
when it comes
to public drug use.

432
00:17:42,501 --> 00:17:44,367
Can you break that down
for us, please?

433
00:17:44,367 --> 00:17:46,234
-Yeah, I think what's
really important is,

434
00:17:46,234 --> 00:17:48,734
you know, we talked before this
that my background

435
00:17:48,734 --> 00:17:52,834
is in social psychology and
community mental health, right?

436
00:17:52,834 --> 00:17:54,567
Although I didn't
take the sitting exam,

437
00:17:54,567 --> 00:17:56,300
I took all the classes.
-Got it.

438
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:59,133
-And so what's really
important to me, right,

439
00:17:59,133 --> 00:18:01,434
is that if we truly want
the community safety element,

440
00:18:01,434 --> 00:18:04,234
we want to make sure that we're
not just seeing public drug use,

441
00:18:04,234 --> 00:18:06,968
but we're actually
putting in solutions

442
00:18:06,968 --> 00:18:08,901
that are going to help folks
get treatment.

443
00:18:08,901 --> 00:18:11,234
We have to use what works.

444
00:18:11,234 --> 00:18:13,734
And so, with this current
public drug use bill,

445
00:18:13,734 --> 00:18:16,200
what I saw was a letter

446
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,801
that was signed
by dozens of psychiatrists,

447
00:18:20,801 --> 00:18:22,667
therapists, social workers,
that was like,

448
00:18:22,667 --> 00:18:24,934
"This is not the way,
but there is a way."

449
00:18:24,934 --> 00:18:26,367
And there are
international models

450
00:18:26,367 --> 00:18:29,200
of overdose prevention centers.
There are...

451
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,300
You know, making sure also
that we have staff

452
00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:34,133
to actually run these programs.

453
00:18:34,133 --> 00:18:35,801
-You don't support
the arresting model,

454
00:18:35,801 --> 00:18:37,667
it sounds like, when it comes
to public drug use.

455
00:18:37,667 --> 00:18:39,434
-We know that carceral beds cost

456
00:18:39,434 --> 00:18:41,834
at least twice as much
as anything else.

457
00:18:41,834 --> 00:18:43,801
And we also know
that the King County Jail

458
00:18:43,801 --> 00:18:46,868
has one of the nation's
highest suicide rates.

459
00:18:46,868 --> 00:18:52,067
And we know that the jail model,
it's hit or miss.

460
00:18:52,067 --> 00:18:54,801
This is you know, we've already
went through the war on drugs.

461
00:18:54,801 --> 00:18:58,567
I remember as a case manager,
taking my clients to ITA court,

462
00:18:58,567 --> 00:19:01,567
you know, mental health court,
and in some cases, that worked.

463
00:19:01,567 --> 00:19:05,934
But if there was more
of a human-centered,

464
00:19:05,934 --> 00:19:10,934
peer-led, and empirically
proven model

465
00:19:10,934 --> 00:19:13,334
that's actually going to get
folks in the door,

466
00:19:13,334 --> 00:19:16,167
that's what really
I would be going for.

467
00:19:16,167 --> 00:19:18,033
-Got it. Cathy, quickly,
a rejoinder, you have?

468
00:19:18,033 --> 00:19:19,534
-Yeah, so my rejoinder is that

469
00:19:19,534 --> 00:19:22,000
as a King County
Superior Court judge,

470
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,634
I often had people come before
me who had committed crimes

471
00:19:25,634 --> 00:19:28,100
because of an
underlying addiction.

472
00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:29,934
We were given an opportunity

473
00:19:29,934 --> 00:19:32,200
to sentence people
to alternative treatments,

474
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,667
and those alternative treatments
were drug treatment.

475
00:19:34,667 --> 00:19:37,100
So, it was
a mandatory participation

476
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:39,667
through the carceral system
in drug treatment.

477
00:19:39,667 --> 00:19:44,234
Those programs were,
in fact, very effective.

478
00:19:44,234 --> 00:19:46,267
I have had people
come back to me and say,

479
00:19:46,267 --> 00:19:50,033
"But for being put through
the criminal justice system

480
00:19:50,033 --> 00:19:52,968
and being mandated to do
treatment, I would be dead."

481
00:19:52,968 --> 00:19:56,067
So, I think we have to stop
this narrative

482
00:19:56,067 --> 00:20:00,067
that there's only one way
to deal with this.

483
00:20:00,067 --> 00:20:03,033
Anybody whose life
has been affected by drug use

484
00:20:03,033 --> 00:20:05,567
knows that intervention
is required,

485
00:20:05,567 --> 00:20:08,033
and there are various approaches
to intervention.

486
00:20:08,033 --> 00:20:09,434
And the last thing
that I will say

487
00:20:09,434 --> 00:20:14,400
is that my opponent supports
supervised consumption sites

488
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,734
as the alternative to
putting people into treatment.

489
00:20:17,734 --> 00:20:18,834
-I want to make sure
that you get a chance

490
00:20:18,834 --> 00:20:20,434
to respond to that, please.
-Yes.

491
00:20:20,434 --> 00:20:22,834
You know, one of the things
that's really important here

492
00:20:22,834 --> 00:20:26,868
is that if we are talking about
someone who, say, is arrested

493
00:20:26,868 --> 00:20:29,133
because they committed a crime,

494
00:20:29,133 --> 00:20:32,534
burglary, something like that,
that's getting, you know,

495
00:20:32,534 --> 00:20:35,267
that's different
than someone who is outside

496
00:20:35,267 --> 00:20:36,467
and they're using,

497
00:20:36,467 --> 00:20:38,367
and then we make it
a misdemeanor,

498
00:20:38,367 --> 00:20:41,834
and then they are arrested
for drug use

499
00:20:41,834 --> 00:20:45,234
without any sort of crime
of impact on other folks.

500
00:20:45,234 --> 00:20:47,534
That overdose prevention site

501
00:20:47,534 --> 00:20:51,400
is internationally and
empirically proven direction.

502
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,267
But the thing is, it's not about
just that.

503
00:20:54,267 --> 00:20:58,300
There's nothing about my
platform or my policy proposals

504
00:20:58,300 --> 00:21:00,868
that's "You have to be this"
or "You have to be that."

505
00:21:00,868 --> 00:21:02,400
It's about what
the multiple pathways

506
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,767
towards shared goals look like.

507
00:21:03,767 --> 00:21:08,000
And so, if there is someone
who, say, has been caught,

508
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,968
you know, in a robbery,
who's for, you know,

509
00:21:10,968 --> 00:21:13,234
also using drugs
and through that system,

510
00:21:13,234 --> 00:21:14,567
we also have a pathway

511
00:21:14,567 --> 00:21:17,601
that's actually going to lead
to effective progress,

512
00:21:17,601 --> 00:21:19,567
does not continue to traumatize,

513
00:21:19,567 --> 00:21:24,033
actually doesn't have
high levels of recidivism.

514
00:21:24,033 --> 00:21:27,868
Great. But until then,
we need to make sure

515
00:21:27,868 --> 00:21:29,701
that we have
alternative pathways

516
00:21:29,701 --> 00:21:30,934
for folks
who need help right now,

517
00:21:30,934 --> 00:21:32,567
and that overdose
prevention center

518
00:21:32,567 --> 00:21:34,100
provides a space
for folks to go

519
00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:37,334
so they aren't outside
using the drugs.

520
00:21:37,334 --> 00:21:38,601
-Briefly, if you could.
-Right.

521
00:21:38,601 --> 00:21:41,601
So, that is the model
that Portugal has used.

522
00:21:41,601 --> 00:21:45,234
Portugal has recently
really backtracked on that

523
00:21:45,234 --> 00:21:48,234
because it has been ineffective,
and it is not --

524
00:21:48,234 --> 00:21:50,467
the problem with the
supervised consumption sites

525
00:21:50,467 --> 00:21:52,968
is that people continue
to use -- this is documented --

526
00:21:52,968 --> 00:21:55,834
they continue to use rather
than getting into treatment.

527
00:21:55,834 --> 00:21:58,434
The goal is to get people
into treatment and recovered.

528
00:21:58,434 --> 00:22:00,100
-I would love to try to move
on to another topic

529
00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:01,167
if I could, here with you,

530
00:22:01,167 --> 00:22:02,734
and ChrisTiana,
I'll start with you.

531
00:22:02,734 --> 00:22:04,701
Your platform talks
about helping people

532
00:22:04,701 --> 00:22:06,701
who are homeless
in the short term and long term,

533
00:22:06,701 --> 00:22:08,400
especially reaching out
to the most vulnerable.

534
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:09,934
So, short term --

535
00:22:09,934 --> 00:22:11,801
I talked with Council President
Juarez not too long about this.

536
00:22:11,801 --> 00:22:13,734
She's not running again
for a D5 seat.

537
00:22:13,734 --> 00:22:15,701
She put out a study this summer
that showed D5

538
00:22:15,701 --> 00:22:19,467
only has about 8% of the city's
total tiny house village units.

539
00:22:19,467 --> 00:22:21,234
There is a plan to add
a village in Maple Leaf

540
00:22:21,234 --> 00:22:23,467
by the end of this year
in D5.

541
00:22:23,467 --> 00:22:24,734
I guess I wanted
to ask it this way.

542
00:22:24,734 --> 00:22:27,100
Does D5 need
more tiny house villages?

543
00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:29,400
Maybe tell us about that
and other plans you have

544
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,334
to deal with homelessness
if you're elected.

545
00:22:31,334 --> 00:22:32,767
-Yes, I was really excited

546
00:22:32,767 --> 00:22:35,701
to go to an event
at Nickelsville

547
00:22:35,701 --> 00:22:39,334
where they were showing
an eco village model,

548
00:22:39,334 --> 00:22:43,234
and it was so cool to see
that they had solar panels.

549
00:22:43,234 --> 00:22:47,133
That was really, you know --
they had rainwater collection,

550
00:22:47,133 --> 00:22:49,100
they had gardens,
and it was a beautiful moment

551
00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:51,834
to be able to really speak
to that group

552
00:22:51,834 --> 00:22:56,534
and for them to say
in that meeting

553
00:22:56,534 --> 00:23:00,133
that Nickelsville was
a preferred sort of alternative

554
00:23:00,133 --> 00:23:02,934
to being outside
on the street.

555
00:23:02,934 --> 00:23:05,200
I don't know if you've ever
spent time in a shelter,

556
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,868
whether it's volunteering,
working, or otherwise.

557
00:23:07,868 --> 00:23:10,968
There's a reason why folks
don't want to go to the shelter,

558
00:23:10,968 --> 00:23:12,601
and it's not because
they don't want housing,

559
00:23:12,601 --> 00:23:15,534
it's because they also
want to be safe.

560
00:23:15,534 --> 00:23:18,968
And especially since the staff
is overworked and overburdened,

561
00:23:18,968 --> 00:23:20,501
we need to make sure
that we have those

562
00:23:20,501 --> 00:23:22,767
alternative solutions.

563
00:23:22,767 --> 00:23:25,234
We have seen an increase

564
00:23:25,234 --> 00:23:28,267
not only in unhoused folks
in District 5,

565
00:23:28,267 --> 00:23:31,200
but also a diversity
of people in District 5.

566
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,000
More permanent supportive
housing, which is great.

567
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,901
Being able to have
multiple types of housing

568
00:23:35,901 --> 00:23:37,133
for multiple stages of life

569
00:23:37,133 --> 00:23:39,200
and being able to have
growth opportunities,

570
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,234
that's what I believe can be
healing and transformative,

571
00:23:42,234 --> 00:23:43,534
so that we can have
a neighborhood

572
00:23:43,534 --> 00:23:46,267
where we're all interconnected
in a community.

573
00:23:46,267 --> 00:23:48,801
-Thank you. Some thoughts
about homelessness, Cathy?

574
00:23:48,801 --> 00:23:50,067
Maybe about
what ChrisTiana is saying

575
00:23:50,067 --> 00:23:51,100
or your plans, as well.

576
00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:52,300
Tiny house villages,

577
00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:54,200
other options for dealing
with this crisis.

578
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,434
-So, absolutely.

579
00:23:55,434 --> 00:23:58,234
So, I think we have to start
from the point

580
00:23:58,234 --> 00:24:02,100
that we say it is not humane,
nor is it safe

581
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:05,033
to have people living
in tents on our streets.

582
00:24:05,033 --> 00:24:08,167
So, my opponent's position
is that people should be allowed

583
00:24:08,167 --> 00:24:10,534
to live in tents on the street

584
00:24:10,534 --> 00:24:12,400
until affordable,
permanent housing

585
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,133
becomes available to them.

586
00:24:15,133 --> 00:24:16,334
I do not support that.

587
00:24:16,334 --> 00:24:19,200
I support moving people
from tents into shelter.

588
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,501
There are many ways that we need
to improve our shelter capacity.

589
00:24:22,501 --> 00:24:25,000
We need to improve the barriers

590
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,200
that keep people
from wanting to utilize shelter,

591
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,100
such as not being able to bring
pets or be with their partners.

592
00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:34,634
We need to make shelter access
available 24/7.

593
00:24:34,634 --> 00:24:37,801
Right now, you can't get into
shelter on a Saturday or Sunday.

594
00:24:37,801 --> 00:24:39,734
You need
a social service referral.

595
00:24:39,734 --> 00:24:42,968
People ought to be able to show
up on their own to the shelter.

596
00:24:42,968 --> 00:24:45,534
So, there are many ways
that we can improve that.

597
00:24:45,534 --> 00:24:46,868
I would say that I would look

598
00:24:46,868 --> 00:24:51,868
at the Auburn Director
of Anti-Homelessness' approach

599
00:24:51,868 --> 00:24:54,033
who said, "For homelessness,
per se,

600
00:24:54,033 --> 00:24:55,667
we need to be more proactive.

601
00:24:55,667 --> 00:24:57,534
We need to consolidate
our outreach,

602
00:24:57,534 --> 00:24:59,300
expand our shelter options,

603
00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:02,734
stop the pipeline,
and provide essential services

604
00:25:02,734 --> 00:25:04,601
to people in
the shelters themselves.

605
00:25:04,601 --> 00:25:05,901
-Thank you.
I'd like to give you

606
00:25:05,901 --> 00:25:08,334
about 30-plus seconds
to respond to that, please.

607
00:25:08,334 --> 00:25:10,067
-Sure.
I just want to clarify,

608
00:25:10,067 --> 00:25:13,267
I don't think anyone
needs to be outside at all.

609
00:25:13,267 --> 00:25:15,300
I'm formerly unhoused,

610
00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:17,167
and that has been everything
from literally

611
00:25:17,167 --> 00:25:21,167
in the middle of a doorway
to a car to a shelter.

612
00:25:21,167 --> 00:25:22,567
That's completely inhumane.

613
00:25:22,567 --> 00:25:27,868
What I do oppose is sweeps,
especially winter sweeps,

614
00:25:27,868 --> 00:25:32,100
because it's just sort of moving
folks from street to street.

615
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:36,200
But I really take to heart
what was said at Nickelsville,

616
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,367
that if we were to have
more of those sort of spaces,

617
00:25:40,367 --> 00:25:43,234
and if that is the alternative,
the preferred alternative

618
00:25:43,234 --> 00:25:45,734
for folks who are currently
outside on tents,

619
00:25:45,734 --> 00:25:47,901
then that's what we should do

620
00:25:47,901 --> 00:25:50,734
until that housing or
that shelter becomes involved.

621
00:25:50,734 --> 00:25:53,334
Yes, we need more shelter beds.
Yes, we need more housing.

622
00:25:53,334 --> 00:25:55,267
Yes, we need to make sure
that the social housing PD

623
00:25:55,267 --> 00:25:56,801
is fully funded for folks

624
00:25:56,801 --> 00:25:59,868
who are not able to go
through the other pipelines,

625
00:25:59,868 --> 00:26:01,968
but no one should be outside.

626
00:26:01,968 --> 00:26:03,434
-We need to start
wrapping up here.

627
00:26:03,434 --> 00:26:04,968
And Cathy, I'm sorry
we are out of time.

628
00:26:04,968 --> 00:26:06,501
I wanted to make sure
I talked about this.

629
00:26:06,501 --> 00:26:10,334
Your campaigns raised
about $92,000 as of mid-October.

630
00:26:10,334 --> 00:26:12,033
Tell us about your top
three endorsements,

631
00:26:12,033 --> 00:26:13,701
what you think voters
should draw from that.

632
00:26:13,701 --> 00:26:15,400
I can give you about 45 seconds.

633
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,033
-Okay. My top endorsements
are Mayor Harrell, MLK Labor,

634
00:26:20,033 --> 00:26:23,701
and also personally important
to me, as well,

635
00:26:23,701 --> 00:26:26,968
is Everytown for gun safety.

636
00:26:26,968 --> 00:26:30,601
I think that those
endorsements demonstrate

637
00:26:30,601 --> 00:26:33,834
that I have
a broad base of support

638
00:26:33,834 --> 00:26:36,868
from established, respected,

639
00:26:36,868 --> 00:26:38,801
elected leadership
to organized labor

640
00:26:38,801 --> 00:26:40,133
to gun safety advocates

641
00:26:40,133 --> 00:26:45,267
who recognize that
I am going to be thoughtful,

642
00:26:45,267 --> 00:26:50,334
evidence-based, and utilize
an approach of good governance

643
00:26:50,334 --> 00:26:52,968
that's going to make
the city work for everyone.

644
00:26:52,968 --> 00:26:54,434
-Thank you very much.
ChrisTiana,

645
00:26:54,434 --> 00:26:57,567
your campaign's raised about
$104,000 as of mid-October.

646
00:26:57,567 --> 00:26:59,100
Here, your top
three endorsements,

647
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:01,934
a final call to voters.
45 seconds, please.

648
00:27:01,934 --> 00:27:05,033
-Yes, I have the sole
endorsement of both the 36th,

649
00:27:05,033 --> 00:27:07,367
the 46th Legislative Democrats

650
00:27:07,367 --> 00:27:09,434
as well as
King County Democrats.

651
00:27:09,434 --> 00:27:11,234
I have been endorsed
by Noel Frame,

652
00:27:11,234 --> 00:27:14,667
Rebecca Saldaña,
Chipalo Street, Girmay Zahilay,

653
00:27:14,667 --> 00:27:19,534
and also have the endorsement
of the bus drivers and operators

654
00:27:19,534 --> 00:27:21,834
at ATU as well as UAW

655
00:27:21,834 --> 00:27:24,067
in solidarity
with their fight right now.

656
00:27:24,067 --> 00:27:25,400
The thing
that's really important

657
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,634
about my fundraising numbers
is that

658
00:27:28,634 --> 00:27:32,567
everything except for $3,000
has came from community.

659
00:27:32,567 --> 00:27:37,400
We have nearly doubled
the individual donors

660
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,634
that anyone has had.

661
00:27:41,634 --> 00:27:43,534
And you know,
it's really because of

662
00:27:43,534 --> 00:27:45,367
the Democracy Voucher Program
I've been able to do that.

663
00:27:45,367 --> 00:27:47,534
So, my call to voters is,

664
00:27:47,534 --> 00:27:49,167
I want to say
just really quickly

665
00:27:49,167 --> 00:27:51,067
that I think
it's really important

666
00:27:51,067 --> 00:27:53,734
for our new city council
to be folks who are focused

667
00:27:53,734 --> 00:27:56,367
on the goals
of how we move forward.

668
00:27:56,367 --> 00:27:59,534
And throughout this interview
or this debate,

669
00:27:59,534 --> 00:28:00,968
I think what's really
important is that,

670
00:28:00,968 --> 00:28:03,067
you know, there's different
sort of approaches.

671
00:28:03,067 --> 00:28:06,934
But if you see,

672
00:28:06,934 --> 00:28:09,334
my focus is not about
what Cathy does

673
00:28:09,334 --> 00:28:12,033
or does not believe
or does or does not do.

674
00:28:12,033 --> 00:28:14,300
My focus is on the policy
and how we help people.

675
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:16,100
And so, that's who
I would be if elected.

676
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:18,033
-Fair enough. Thank you
both for your input here,

677
00:28:18,033 --> 00:28:20,334
and we will be right back.

678
00:28:20,334 --> 00:28:23,234
What are people saying on social
media about the two candidates

679
00:28:23,234 --> 00:28:25,801
for Seattle City Council
District 5?

680
00:28:25,801 --> 00:28:27,200
One person writes...

681
00:28:35,534 --> 00:28:37,133
Another person comments...

682
00:28:44,868 --> 00:28:46,701
We'd like to know
what you think.

683
00:28:46,701 --> 00:28:50,067
Send us an e-mail
contact@seattlechannel.org,

684
00:28:50,067 --> 00:28:52,934
or find us on social media.

685
00:28:52,934 --> 00:28:54,234
Coming up next week,

686
00:28:54,234 --> 00:28:56,501
first term Council Member
Dan Strauss

687
00:28:56,501 --> 00:28:58,100
faces challenger
Pete Hanning,

688
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:00,534
executive director
of the Fremont Chamber,

689
00:29:00,534 --> 00:29:03,300
in the race to represent
Ballard, Green Lake, Fremont,

690
00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:06,200
and West Magnolia
on the Seattle City Council.

691
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,200
The District 6 debate
on the next "City Inside/Out."

692
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,801
I hope you join us.

693
00:29:10,801 --> 00:29:17,367
♪♪

694
00:29:17,367 --> 00:29:23,968
♪♪