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-We have to act with urgency.

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-State lawmakers say
we're falling behind

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in the affordable
housing crisis.

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And developers say they're
facing too many restrictions

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on what
and where they can build.

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-Really right now,
we've only got certain zones

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that allow you
to do multifamily.

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-But does the so-called missing
middle plan

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to require nearly every city
to allow

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fourplexes to be built
in all residential zones,

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have a strong enough
foundation?

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-The parking minimums
is going to be a challenge.

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-It's just that there are a lot
of unintended consequences.

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-We hear from two mayors

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from either side of the state
to get the story.

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-We had to do something bold.
-Is the infrastructure in place?

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-Does the missing middle bill
measure up or miss the mark?

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We're nailing down
some answers next

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on "City Inside Out."

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♪♪

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♪♪

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-Welcome to this edition of
"City Inside Out."

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I'm your host, Brian Callanan.

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We all know the rising
cost of housing

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is a crisis in our state.

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But is a plan requiring cities

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to get rid of
single-family housing zones

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part of the answer?

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House Bill 1110,

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the so-called missing
middle bill,

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would mandate that cities
with at least 6,000 residents

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need to allow fourplex housing
in all residential areas

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or sixplexes in areas
close to major transit stops.

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Opponents say this bill
could hurt cities

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by forcing them
to add costly infrastructure

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and potentially
increasing displacement

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from older affordable
housing units.

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But supporters say the state
has to act now

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with a housing shortage
that's getting worse every year.

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-The fundamental
underlying challenge

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is that we do not have
enough housing in our state

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for our people.

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-It doesn't take a proclamation
from the governor to know

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housing prices in Washington

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have quite literally gone
through the roof.

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-And it's simple supply
and demand.

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There's just not enough houses.

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We've had a huge influx
of people coming in,

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all the tech workers,

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and we just can't
build houses fast enough.

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-Michael Pollard is
vice president of Entitlement

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for Shelter Homes,
a local home builder,

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creating new units like
these townhomes in Kirkland.

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There's just one problem.

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-We always run
into the challenge of nobody

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wants development
in their backyard

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and after their development
is done.

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-Resistance toward
adding housing density

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is a statewide issue
exemplified in Seattle

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where a majority
of the residential areas

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are zoned for
single-family homes,

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not duplexes or fourplexes
that Pollard says could provide

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a major boost
to our housing supply.

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-If you can get two, three,
or four done on a given lot,

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then that allows more lots
to be developed.

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And it really -- it opens up
a sea of new land

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for us to develop on.

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-Representative Jessica Bateman
says this zoning issue

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has left most local prospective
homebuyers zoned out.

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-First-time home ownership
is only affordable

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in three counties
in Washington State.

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They're all in eastern
Washington.

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-Bateman, the Democrat from
the 22nd District in Olympia,

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is prime sponsor
of House Bill 1110,

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the missing middle bill focused
on middle income earners.

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-Washington is experiencing
a housing shortage,

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which is culminating
in a housing crisis.

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-1110 would require cities
with a population over 6,000

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to allow for development

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of at least four units
per lot on all areas

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now zoned for residential use,

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six if two of the units
are affordable.

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-Today we are a united front.
-Both sides realize

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that we can
no longer accept the failures.

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-The measure has bipartisan
support this year.

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After Bateman's unsuccessful
attempt to pass it in 2022

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and she says the data
from places like Portland,

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which eliminated single-family
zoning last year,

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shows the policy can work.

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-It's a diffuse
absorption of population growth.

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You're not seeing entire,
you know,

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blocks being bulldozed down

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and sixplexes
going up in all of them.

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-Bateman says
our state is currently

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140,000 units behind
in terms of housing supply

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and we'll need a million
more homes in the next 20 years

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to handle population growth.

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So the time to act is now.

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-So if we want a future where
young people can buy homes,

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start families, build equity,
people have affordable rent,

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we do have to treat this
with some urgency.

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-I do believe that our
legislators are doing this

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with the best of intentions.

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There are just some
unintended consequences

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that we want to make sure
don't happen.

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-Auburn Mayor Nancy Backus works
with the Association

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of Washington Cities,

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which rejects what it calls HB
1110 one size fits all approach.

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-One of the challenges
that we have

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with the current structure
of the bill

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is the uniform application
of this in all cities over

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6,000 on all parcels.

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-Backus says
new housing means new needs

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for infrastructure,

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like electric service
and sewers.

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Big money projects
for smaller cities, especially.

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-The infrastructure, is not
there to support the additional

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density in those neighborhoods.

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Well, that's a cost to the city

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that obviously is going to be
passed on to our ratepayers.

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-And she says the bill's
requirement to add density,

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specifically in areas within a
half mile of major transit stops

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could mean developers
will buy up

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and tear down older,
existing affordable units,

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leaving many of her residents
without a home.

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-Where do they go?

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We're required to make sure
that there's no displacement.

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But this law itself
is going to create displacement.

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-Backus says her city
is not anti-density.

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She says more than 2,000 units
of affordable housing

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have been built here
in the last five years.

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-Auburn is very affordable.
I'm very proud of that.

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-And Auburn and other cities
want to make sure a new state

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zoning requirement
doesn't complicate

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local housing efforts
already underway.

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-We just want the ability to
work through processes

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that we've already begun
and not have to scrap that

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for a statewide process

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that may not fit
with all the work

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that's already been done
and all of the money

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that's already been spent
for that plan.

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-Despite the critiques,

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many signs point to the passage
of HB 1110 this year

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as our state looks at solving
a housing crisis

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with a long road ahead.

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-I think it really does need
to come from the state level.

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-To discuss this issue further

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we have two mayors with us
from either side of the state.

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We have Keith Scully.

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He's the mayor of Shoreline
in our studio.

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Mayor Scully, thank you
very much for being here.

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-Thank you for having me.
-And we also have with us Mayor

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Nadine Woodward
from the city of Spokane.

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Mayor Woodward,
good to have you as well.

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-Great to be here, Brian.

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-I think you have some different
experiences when it comes

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to affordable housing,

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and I'm very appreciative
of having your input today.

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And Mayor Woodward,
maybe I can start with you here.

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So when the state was not able
to pass a missing

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middle housing bill last year,

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Spokane basically enacted its
own version of that legislation.

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Talk to us about
building opportunity and choices

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for all the BOCA ordinance.

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It's an interim one year
ordinance that you championed.

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The city put it into effect
in August of last year.

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What is it?
Why did you support it?

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What impact is it having?

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-Thanks a lot, Brian.
It's a really a win-win

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between the administration
and the legislation community

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and all the stakeholders
in the housing issue.

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And what we found out
was we had eight in ten families

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that could not afford a home
in Spokane and Spokane County.

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Our median price of homes
have gone up to $400,000,

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nearly double what they were
before the pandemic.

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We've seen a huge migration
of people

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moving to the east side
of Washington

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from western Washington
and California.

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Tight, tight supply,
high demand.

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I declared a housing emergency

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and we got to work very,
very quickly.

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We had already been working
on a Spokane housing action plan

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that came
from a commerce grant

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that we had brought
the community together

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and listened to
what the needs were.

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But we took that plan,

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brought it to my housing
task force,

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and helped inform
that even more.

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But what it basically does
to address the missing middle

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is it allows duplexes

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and townhomes on
any residential lot

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and also triplexes
and fourplexes

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on busier transportation
lines and corridors.

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So what it really has done

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is allowed us to use
vacant lots in the city,

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in neighborhoods in a way that
they could not be used before.

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-Okay. Thank you
very much for that.

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Mayor Scully,
I want to talk about

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what's going on in Shoreline
and your approach to this issue.

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There's a lot of growth
that's happening in your city,

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as you well know.

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And the city has approved
up zones in several areas

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around light rail stations

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and high capacity bus lines.

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I want you to tell us about
how your city

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has responded to growth.

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This whole missing middle
question, what do you got?

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00:09:00,434 --> 00:09:02,467
-So we took a slightly different
approach than Spokane did.

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00:09:02,467 --> 00:09:04,801
Instead of up zoning
across the board,

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00:09:04,801 --> 00:09:08,367
we picked a few areas around
existing high-capacity transit

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00:09:08,367 --> 00:09:10,234
and up zoned
intensively there.

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00:09:10,234 --> 00:09:13,067
So right around the light
rail stations and along Aurora,

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00:09:13,067 --> 00:09:15,067
which is served
by Bus Rapid Transit,

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00:09:15,067 --> 00:09:16,634
we allow what we call MDR 78,

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00:09:16,634 --> 00:09:19,667
which is a 70-foot height limit
and it's mixed use residential.

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00:09:19,667 --> 00:09:22,701
So you can put businesses there
or you can put housing there.

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00:09:22,701 --> 00:09:25,234
And what folks are building
is rental housing.

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00:09:25,234 --> 00:09:27,300
We had hoped there would be
some condominiums going in there

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00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:29,434
so folks could afford
to buy a place that,

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00:09:29,434 --> 00:09:31,033
for the most part
hasn't happened.

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00:09:31,033 --> 00:09:33,167
But then surrounding
those intense zones,

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00:09:33,167 --> 00:09:34,834
we've got less intense zones,

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which are generally still
within a half mile

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00:09:36,534 --> 00:09:38,467
walk shed
of high-capacity transit.

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00:09:38,467 --> 00:09:41,767
And those are zoned for either
35 or 45-foot height limits.

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00:09:41,767 --> 00:09:42,934
And those are townhouses.

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00:09:42,934 --> 00:09:45,400
And those have been
going up like mushrooms.

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You can't move without tripping
over a townhouse in Shoreline.

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-Okay.
-The unfortunate thing is,

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00:09:51,033 --> 00:09:52,434
we had hoped townhouses
would be

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where folks started
buying their first homes.

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00:09:54,501 --> 00:09:56,467
They've been retailing
for between 800,000

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00:09:56,467 --> 00:09:58,467
and $1,000,000 each,

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00:09:58,467 --> 00:10:00,934
which sort of is not
the end goal we were hoping for,

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00:10:00,934 --> 00:10:02,367
although the more supply
you add,

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00:10:02,367 --> 00:10:05,133
hopefully will eventually see
those prices start to come down.

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00:10:05,133 --> 00:10:07,067
-Thank you. And I want to kind
of expand on this idea

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00:10:07,067 --> 00:10:08,968
and talk about
what the state's discussing here

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00:10:08,968 --> 00:10:11,667
with House Bill 1110,
this missing middle bill.

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00:10:11,667 --> 00:10:13,267
It's one of more
than a dozen bills related

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00:10:13,267 --> 00:10:14,934
to housing
that's happening in Olympia.

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00:10:14,934 --> 00:10:18,834
So HB 1110 would require cities
with populations of 6,000

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00:10:18,834 --> 00:10:20,634
or more
to allow fourplex housing

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00:10:20,634 --> 00:10:22,000
and all residential areas
and sixplexes

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00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,767
in areas
near major transit stops.

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00:10:24,767 --> 00:10:26,234
Mayor Scully,
is that a good idea?

247
00:10:26,234 --> 00:10:28,834
-So I'm opposed to it,
but I'm really curious to hear

248
00:10:28,834 --> 00:10:30,400
about Spokane's
experience with it.

249
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,701
-Yeah.
-Because our concern is simply

250
00:10:32,701 --> 00:10:35,567
because it's in a city
doesn't mean it's near transit.

251
00:10:35,567 --> 00:10:37,534
Right. I mean, Shoreline is
very dense to start with.

252
00:10:37,534 --> 00:10:39,033
We are pretty much built out.

253
00:10:39,033 --> 00:10:40,467
But there are
still neighborhoods

254
00:10:40,467 --> 00:10:43,267
where if you add
six more cars to a street,

255
00:10:43,267 --> 00:10:45,033
that's six more cars
parked on the street.

256
00:10:45,033 --> 00:10:46,667
And those folks are not going
to able to walk to transit

257
00:10:46,667 --> 00:10:47,868
because it's not walkable.
-Okay.

258
00:10:47,868 --> 00:10:49,467
-It's walkable in some parts
of the city.

259
00:10:49,467 --> 00:10:50,901
It's not walkable in others.

260
00:10:50,901 --> 00:10:53,100
And without that access
to high-capacity,

261
00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:56,133
my concern is not only are
we not decreasing

262
00:10:56,133 --> 00:10:57,734
our dependance
on automobiles,

263
00:10:57,734 --> 00:10:59,434
but we're kind
of trashing our cities,

264
00:10:59,434 --> 00:11:01,934
we're adding density in places
it doesn't need to be.

265
00:11:01,934 --> 00:11:04,300
And while it's better to be
in a city than not in a city,

266
00:11:04,300 --> 00:11:05,834
simply because it's in the city
doesn't mean

267
00:11:05,834 --> 00:11:07,234
it's necessarily
in the right spot.

268
00:11:07,234 --> 00:11:08,467
-Fair enough. Mayor Woodward,

269
00:11:08,467 --> 00:11:09,901
I just wanted
your thoughts about this

270
00:11:09,901 --> 00:11:11,534
and maybe your take
on this idea of

271
00:11:11,534 --> 00:11:13,868
maybe bringing BOCA
to a statewide level.

272
00:11:13,868 --> 00:11:16,300
Do you think
that would be a good thing?

273
00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:18,868
-Well, I do, because it's
definitely working for us.

274
00:11:18,868 --> 00:11:20,100
But as far as the state,

275
00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:22,534
I don't know
if the state legislation

276
00:11:22,534 --> 00:11:24,501
right now
is going to change much

277
00:11:24,501 --> 00:11:26,434
or impact the city --
the city of Spokane much

278
00:11:26,434 --> 00:11:28,234
because of what
we've already done.

279
00:11:28,234 --> 00:11:30,634
I mean, it would just increased
fourplexes to sixplexes

280
00:11:30,634 --> 00:11:33,267
in those busy --
busy corridors.

281
00:11:33,267 --> 00:11:35,200
But what we're seeing
in our predevelopment

282
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,501
permitting is a lot of interest

283
00:11:37,501 --> 00:11:40,200
and a lot of action
based on BOCA.

284
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,934
Now, whether or not
all those units go through,

285
00:11:41,934 --> 00:11:45,000
that's another thing,
but lots of interest.

286
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,067
We're not seeing
any huge push back.

287
00:11:47,067 --> 00:11:48,601
In fact, we're seeing
more support

288
00:11:48,601 --> 00:11:50,968
than we ever thought
we would in neighborhoods

289
00:11:50,968 --> 00:11:53,367
because the building
that we're suggesting

290
00:11:53,367 --> 00:11:58,234
has to meet the already existing
design and building standards.

291
00:11:58,234 --> 00:12:00,934
So you're not going to tear down
an historic home

292
00:12:00,934 --> 00:12:02,634
and build something modern.

293
00:12:02,634 --> 00:12:04,834
And we have seen
absolutely no tear downs --

294
00:12:04,834 --> 00:12:06,567
-Okay.
-...through this.

295
00:12:06,567 --> 00:12:08,200
So it's been very favorable.

296
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,334
-Okay. Good to know. Keith.

297
00:12:10,334 --> 00:12:12,434
Sorry to take your job
I'm curious, Mayor Woodward,

298
00:12:12,434 --> 00:12:16,000
in the less dense
areas of the city,

299
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,367
how much have you seen?

300
00:12:17,367 --> 00:12:20,801
How many folks are putting
a cottage in their backyard?

301
00:12:20,801 --> 00:12:23,467
-Well, actually, the ADUs
have been very, very popular.

302
00:12:23,467 --> 00:12:25,834
And that was another reform
that we've done.

303
00:12:25,834 --> 00:12:30,033
We've had dozens of those
permitted already

304
00:12:30,033 --> 00:12:32,834
starting in 2022 and into '23.

305
00:12:32,834 --> 00:12:34,767
So actually,
a lot of interest in that.

306
00:12:34,767 --> 00:12:37,334
-Okay. I wanted to make sure
I guided us back.

307
00:12:37,334 --> 00:12:38,734
Mayor Scully talking about

308
00:12:38,734 --> 00:12:40,067
some of the infrastructure
issues

309
00:12:40,067 --> 00:12:41,567
that can sometimes
come with this,

310
00:12:41,567 --> 00:12:42,901
because I know
that's been a concern here.

311
00:12:42,901 --> 00:12:45,367
You add this extra density,
it might add some extra

312
00:12:45,367 --> 00:12:47,200
needs for infrastructure.
Some thoughts on that?

313
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,434
-No, for sure.
And that was a big constraint

314
00:12:49,434 --> 00:12:50,734
what we did and we had to work

315
00:12:50,734 --> 00:12:52,801
with our electricity
comes from Seattle City Light.

316
00:12:52,801 --> 00:12:54,801
We had to work with them
to make sure we had power.

317
00:12:54,801 --> 00:12:56,234
We worked
with our water district,

318
00:12:56,234 --> 00:12:57,400
which is independent
of the city,

319
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:58,868
to make sure we had water.

320
00:12:58,868 --> 00:13:01,133
And when we built it
or when we designed it,

321
00:13:01,133 --> 00:13:02,834
we went block by block.

322
00:13:02,834 --> 00:13:05,767
And we ask one, is this going
to be walkable to transit?

323
00:13:05,767 --> 00:13:07,968
Two, is the infrastructure
in place,

324
00:13:07,968 --> 00:13:10,367
not just water and sewer,
but also sidewalks?

325
00:13:10,367 --> 00:13:11,601
Is there enough parks?

326
00:13:11,601 --> 00:13:13,467
And we made sure
that as we designed it,

327
00:13:13,467 --> 00:13:14,801
that when it was
fully built out,

328
00:13:14,801 --> 00:13:17,567
we'd be able to support it.
And my worry and again,

329
00:13:17,567 --> 00:13:19,200
I'm fascinated
here about Spokane.

330
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,567
My worry is if you start
just dropping this here

331
00:13:21,567 --> 00:13:23,434
and there, you're going to find
that infrastructure

332
00:13:23,434 --> 00:13:25,667
does get stretched
because our infrastructure

333
00:13:25,667 --> 00:13:28,534
was designed for single-family
back in the '40s, '50s, and '60s

334
00:13:28,534 --> 00:13:30,133
when Shoreline was first
built out.

335
00:13:30,133 --> 00:13:31,434
-I see. Mayor Woodward,

336
00:13:31,434 --> 00:13:32,901
maybe you can
break this down for us.

337
00:13:32,901 --> 00:13:35,767
Has this infrastructure
piece been an issue in Spokane?

338
00:13:35,767 --> 00:13:37,701
I know it's very early yet
with the BOCA process

339
00:13:37,701 --> 00:13:40,667
because it just went into effect
in August of last year.

340
00:13:40,667 --> 00:13:42,400
But let us know
about infrastructure

341
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,534
and how that plays a role here.

342
00:13:44,534 --> 00:13:46,534
-Yeah, we have not had any
issues with infrastructure

343
00:13:46,534 --> 00:13:49,968
concerns and certainly
we looked at that

344
00:13:49,968 --> 00:13:52,601
before we passed BOCA
we are utilities,

345
00:13:52,601 --> 00:13:56,067
so we provide water, we do use
a vista for electricity,

346
00:13:56,067 --> 00:13:57,601
but our situation is different.

347
00:13:57,601 --> 00:13:59,334
We're an old city.

348
00:13:59,334 --> 00:14:01,400
I mean, the city of Spokane
has been around

349
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,200
since the mining
and timber days.

350
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,033
And when we had housing crisis
100 years ago,

351
00:14:06,033 --> 00:14:07,834
we were doing
multifamily housing

352
00:14:07,834 --> 00:14:09,601
throughout the neighborhood.

353
00:14:09,601 --> 00:14:11,501
So our infrastructure
may be a bit aging.

354
00:14:11,501 --> 00:14:13,300
We're keeping up our capital
improvement projects

355
00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:17,133
have really been good about,
you know, keeping up with that.

356
00:14:17,133 --> 00:14:19,634
But we have seen no problems
with infrastructure.

357
00:14:19,634 --> 00:14:21,133
-Okay. Thank you.
And I should point out,

358
00:14:21,133 --> 00:14:23,734
the state is looking at this
issue while discussing this

359
00:14:23,734 --> 00:14:25,868
bill and Olympia could offer
some extensions

360
00:14:25,868 --> 00:14:27,567
to some cities
if this does pass,

361
00:14:27,567 --> 00:14:29,901
possibly other assistance
if there's a demonstrated

362
00:14:29,901 --> 00:14:31,434
need for infrastructure here.

363
00:14:31,434 --> 00:14:33,167
But, Mayor Woodward,
maybe I can stick with you

364
00:14:33,167 --> 00:14:34,701
for another question here.

365
00:14:34,701 --> 00:14:36,133
Other jurisdictions
around the country

366
00:14:36,133 --> 00:14:39,400
have already passed measures
that are similar to HB 1110,

367
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,367
the state of Oregon,
the state of California.

368
00:14:41,367 --> 00:14:42,968
And the data I've seen
from those cities

369
00:14:42,968 --> 00:14:44,968
seems to show
what you're talking about.

370
00:14:44,968 --> 00:14:46,434
It's a gradual infill.

371
00:14:46,434 --> 00:14:48,901
Is it kind of a rush here
with BOCA?

372
00:14:48,901 --> 00:14:51,200
Are these things
popping up overnight

373
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,234
or what's been that -- what's
been that situation in Spokane

374
00:14:54,234 --> 00:14:55,434
with the passage of BOCA?

375
00:14:55,434 --> 00:14:58,367
How quickly is
this infill moving in?

376
00:14:58,367 --> 00:15:00,868
-It's very, very gradual.
As I mentioned,

377
00:15:00,868 --> 00:15:04,434
even our predevelopment activity
is about 200-plus units.

378
00:15:04,434 --> 00:15:06,567
And those haven't even
been fully approved yet.

379
00:15:06,567 --> 00:15:08,200
So it's very, very slow.

380
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,234
We anticipate one thing that
we know when we change zoning,

381
00:15:11,234 --> 00:15:13,234
it does things don't just
change overnight.

382
00:15:13,234 --> 00:15:14,701
Certainly they haven't
experienced

383
00:15:14,701 --> 00:15:16,100
that in Spokane at all,

384
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:18,667
but we just knew we were
in such crisis mode

385
00:15:18,667 --> 00:15:21,534
for housing that we had
to do something big.

386
00:15:21,534 --> 00:15:23,534
We had to do something bold.

387
00:15:23,534 --> 00:15:26,434
It has gotten broad support

388
00:15:26,434 --> 00:15:29,734
and favorable comments
from some of the neighborhoods.

389
00:15:29,734 --> 00:15:31,267
I'll just say some of
the historic neighborhoods

390
00:15:31,267 --> 00:15:32,701
were a little bit concerned,

391
00:15:32,701 --> 00:15:36,767
especially those who already
have preservation protections,

392
00:15:36,767 --> 00:15:38,901
but they're not seeing
the tear downs

393
00:15:38,901 --> 00:15:40,267
that they thought
that they would.

394
00:15:40,267 --> 00:15:42,634
What they're seeing
is vacant city lots

395
00:15:42,634 --> 00:15:43,868
that now can be utilized

396
00:15:43,868 --> 00:15:45,868
and developed
like they couldn't before

397
00:15:45,868 --> 00:15:48,400
because of some of
the issues or concerns,

398
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,267
structural issues
that were -- didn't pan out

399
00:15:50,267 --> 00:15:51,667
for single family.

400
00:15:51,667 --> 00:15:53,200
Now it does for a townhouse.

401
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,200
-Okay. I guess Mayor Scully
in looking at this,

402
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,601
it looks like
other jurisdictions

403
00:15:56,601 --> 00:15:58,968
have had a relatively
mild experience

404
00:15:58,968 --> 00:16:01,167
with this whole middle missing
middle piece.

405
00:16:01,167 --> 00:16:02,801
Do you think it would be
different in Shoreline

406
00:16:02,801 --> 00:16:04,133
for some reason?

407
00:16:04,133 --> 00:16:07,133
-I do. And I have fantasies
about vacant city lots.

408
00:16:07,133 --> 00:16:09,234
We just don't have --
we of course, have a few, but --

409
00:16:09,234 --> 00:16:10,567
-Sure, sure.
-But that's that's just not

410
00:16:10,567 --> 00:16:13,000
the way Shoreline looks.
It's pretty much built out.

411
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,601
And my concern is exactly that,

412
00:16:14,601 --> 00:16:16,200
that we're going to get
200 units,

413
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,901
which doesn't really do much
for affordable housing.

414
00:16:18,901 --> 00:16:21,534
We have thousands
in the pipeline in Shoreline

415
00:16:21,534 --> 00:16:23,200
in the high-density areas.

416
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,968
We're going to get 200 units
and they're going to be

417
00:16:24,968 --> 00:16:27,767
plopped down in places
where they don't really fit.

418
00:16:27,767 --> 00:16:29,868
And so you're going
to get a cul-de-sac

419
00:16:29,868 --> 00:16:31,734
which has been built out
since the '60s,

420
00:16:31,734 --> 00:16:33,534
which is nowhere near transit.

421
00:16:33,534 --> 00:16:36,200
And all of a sudden you've got
instead of eight houses,

422
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,901
you've got 12
and the neighborhood

423
00:16:37,901 --> 00:16:39,167
is just not set up for that.
-Yeah.

424
00:16:39,167 --> 00:16:42,033
-Cities absolutely
have to take more density.

425
00:16:42,033 --> 00:16:44,234
We have to do it.
We have to up zone and cities

426
00:16:44,234 --> 00:16:46,000
that are trying to preserve
their rural feel

427
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,567
as some of them claim,
that's missing the boat.

428
00:16:48,567 --> 00:16:50,767
But in my belief,
we need to do it carefully

429
00:16:50,767 --> 00:16:52,934
and we need to do it only
in certain parts of the city

430
00:16:52,934 --> 00:16:55,200
that can accommodate the kind
of growth we want to see.

431
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,167
-Can I go down one path with
you, Mayor Scully,

432
00:16:57,167 --> 00:16:58,467
about parking specifically?
-Sure, yeah.

433
00:16:58,467 --> 00:17:00,200
-I know that that's a piece
of the puzzle here, too,

434
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,734
your concerns about that,

435
00:17:01,734 --> 00:17:04,100
because I know the state's
talking about that issue, too.

436
00:17:04,100 --> 00:17:06,734
-So around so are we --

437
00:17:06,734 --> 00:17:09,701
we require 2.75 parking spaces
per unit

438
00:17:09,701 --> 00:17:11,234
for one-bedroom units.
-Yeah.

439
00:17:11,234 --> 00:17:13,334
-Which means that there is
going to be more units

440
00:17:13,334 --> 00:17:16,801
than there are spaces for cars.
But what we've found

441
00:17:16,801 --> 00:17:19,334
and what I think is pretty
consistent across the nation

442
00:17:19,334 --> 00:17:21,734
is that if you're next
to high-capacity transit,

443
00:17:21,734 --> 00:17:24,167
some folks will finally decide
they don't need a car

444
00:17:24,167 --> 00:17:25,767
or they don't need
a second car,

445
00:17:25,767 --> 00:17:27,601
they don't need a third car,
their kid doesn't need a car.

446
00:17:27,601 --> 00:17:30,234
And that problem will solve
itself for the high-density.

447
00:17:30,234 --> 00:17:32,200
What actually worries
me more on parking

448
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,400
is we've got a giant area
around Shoreline

449
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,033
that is going to be driving
to our light rail stations.

450
00:17:37,033 --> 00:17:38,501
So I'm worried our neighborhoods
are going to get

451
00:17:38,501 --> 00:17:40,033
inundated with folks
from out of town,

452
00:17:40,033 --> 00:17:41,467
from the single-family
neighborhoods

453
00:17:41,467 --> 00:17:43,100
who want to drive to
light rail and then park.

454
00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:44,434
-Yeah, and I know

455
00:17:44,434 --> 00:17:45,567
we're talking about
very different cities here,

456
00:17:45,567 --> 00:17:46,834
but I really like
this cross comparison.

457
00:17:46,834 --> 00:17:48,667
Mayor Woodward, can you
talk to us about parking?

458
00:17:48,667 --> 00:17:50,601
And was that part
of the discussion,

459
00:17:50,601 --> 00:17:52,334
part of what was going on
with BOCA

460
00:17:52,334 --> 00:17:53,801
here and in talking about it?

461
00:17:53,801 --> 00:17:55,968
-That's always yeah, that's
always a consideration, Brian.

462
00:17:55,968 --> 00:17:58,300
What we're seeing
and we're much different

463
00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:00,400
than Shoreline,
as you mentioned,

464
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,934
is that we have so many people
who can't afford who work

465
00:18:02,934 --> 00:18:05,434
in the city of Spokane
or Spokane County

466
00:18:05,434 --> 00:18:07,067
they can't afford
to buy housing,

467
00:18:07,067 --> 00:18:10,734
are living now across the border
30 miles away in north Idaho.

468
00:18:10,734 --> 00:18:13,467
And we're seeing more car
and carbon on our highway

469
00:18:13,467 --> 00:18:14,901
on Interstate 90.

470
00:18:14,901 --> 00:18:16,801
And so if we can get those
who work in Spokane

471
00:18:16,801 --> 00:18:18,667
to be able to live in Spokane,

472
00:18:18,667 --> 00:18:22,334
we can have we can address
that environmental impact.

473
00:18:22,334 --> 00:18:25,000
But parking is certainly
a concern. I understand.

474
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,701
And I -- and I agree
with Mayor Scully.

475
00:18:27,701 --> 00:18:29,767
-Yeah, I know the city,
the excuse me,

476
00:18:29,767 --> 00:18:31,434
the state is also working
on that issue

477
00:18:31,434 --> 00:18:34,000
to try to figure out
some different different pieces.

478
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,601
This is very much legislation
that is in process.

479
00:18:36,601 --> 00:18:38,601
So I appreciate
this back and forth.

480
00:18:38,601 --> 00:18:40,100
Mayor Woodward,
let me go back to you here,

481
00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:42,100
because I think the flip side
of this question here

482
00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:45,000
is when we talk about
hundreds of units being built,

483
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,934
I know you need thousands
and so I'm trying to figure out

484
00:18:46,934 --> 00:18:49,868
a way you could incentivize
builders to build more units,

485
00:18:49,868 --> 00:18:51,167
especially
more affordable ones,

486
00:18:51,167 --> 00:18:53,067
because I think this is
a part of the puzzle, too,

487
00:18:53,067 --> 00:18:56,033
building homes for people
doesn't always pencil out

488
00:18:56,033 --> 00:18:57,834
for developers when
you're building these units,

489
00:18:57,834 --> 00:19:00,567
for people who maybe make
less than median income

490
00:19:00,567 --> 00:19:01,801
and things of that nature.

491
00:19:01,801 --> 00:19:03,267
How has Spokane
approached this idea

492
00:19:03,267 --> 00:19:07,267
of trying to offer incentives
potentially for builders?

493
00:19:07,267 --> 00:19:09,434
-Yes, we have and we've used
some of our ARPA funds

494
00:19:09,434 --> 00:19:11,133
for this a project

495
00:19:11,133 --> 00:19:13,767
so city wise, significant funds
that we can help

496
00:19:13,767 --> 00:19:18,100
these developers who are
building special projects

497
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:20,634
get compensation
for some of the infrastructure

498
00:19:20,634 --> 00:19:23,634
or some of the permitting fees
that they need just to act.

499
00:19:23,634 --> 00:19:26,100
And we also have
a concierge service

500
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:28,868
within our own permitting and
development services department

501
00:19:28,868 --> 00:19:31,133
that kind of walks alongside
some of these developers,

502
00:19:31,133 --> 00:19:34,000
especially with more
complex projects,

503
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,901
to make sure that they're
meeting all the deadlines,

504
00:19:35,901 --> 00:19:37,667
getting all the -- everything
that they need in order

505
00:19:37,667 --> 00:19:40,133
before a filing is made.

506
00:19:40,133 --> 00:19:42,467
So those are some of the things
that we're doing right now.

507
00:19:42,467 --> 00:19:45,000
We also have new funding
streams for affordable

508
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,267
and low income housing

509
00:19:46,267 --> 00:19:47,968
because I think when we talk
about housing,

510
00:19:47,968 --> 00:19:50,300
we have to look
at the entire picture.

511
00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:53,000
I'll just be honest. We need
housing at every single level.

512
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,567
But now our city council
has increased sales tax

513
00:19:55,567 --> 00:19:57,434
so that we've got
some buckets of money

514
00:19:57,434 --> 00:20:00,133
that are accumulating
coming into our city

515
00:20:00,133 --> 00:20:03,334
that we can now use
to address low income

516
00:20:03,334 --> 00:20:06,167
and low income
supportive housing as well.

517
00:20:06,167 --> 00:20:07,367
-Thank you very much for that.

518
00:20:07,367 --> 00:20:08,567
Mayor Scully,
some thoughts from you.

519
00:20:08,567 --> 00:20:10,000
What incentives do you think
would help

520
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,801
developers build more? What are
you hearing from builders?

521
00:20:11,801 --> 00:20:14,868
So we're doing a lot of that and
it's effective for the rentals.

522
00:20:14,868 --> 00:20:17,400
It's not effective
for the purchased homes.

523
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:18,667
So in our high rise zones,

524
00:20:18,667 --> 00:20:20,400
the mid and high rise zones,
it's mandated.

525
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:21,968
It's not an incentive.
You have to do it.

526
00:20:21,968 --> 00:20:24,400
You want to build the high rise
in Shoreline. It has to be 20%.

527
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,901
20% of it has to be affordable
to 80% area median

528
00:20:27,901 --> 00:20:29,634
income or below.

529
00:20:29,634 --> 00:20:31,133
And that has not been
an impediment.

530
00:20:31,133 --> 00:20:32,934
You see construction cranes,
all over Shoreline.

531
00:20:32,934 --> 00:20:35,167
It's getting built
in those zones

532
00:20:35,167 --> 00:20:38,767
and in every zone we offer
a huge number of incentives.

533
00:20:38,767 --> 00:20:40,701
There's a state program
which is

534
00:20:40,701 --> 00:20:42,601
a property tax
exemption program.

535
00:20:42,601 --> 00:20:44,701
That's our most significant one
in my understanding,

536
00:20:44,701 --> 00:20:47,367
is I think any city
is eligible for that.

537
00:20:47,367 --> 00:20:50,701
It's a PT, property tax
exemption funding stream.

538
00:20:50,701 --> 00:20:51,968
Folks take advantage of that.

539
00:20:51,968 --> 00:20:54,501
And for rentals,
we're doing okay.

540
00:20:54,501 --> 00:20:55,968
I mean, Shoreline
is fairly affordable

541
00:20:55,968 --> 00:20:57,567
if you want to rent there.

542
00:20:57,567 --> 00:20:59,100
You're talking about family
members who might move here

543
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:00,701
have look at Shoreline.

544
00:21:00,701 --> 00:21:02,167
It's a little cheaper
than Capitol Hill.

545
00:21:02,167 --> 00:21:03,300
In fact, it's a lot cheaper than
Capitol Hill.

546
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:05,000
-Sure. Sure.
Right, right, right, right.

547
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,868
And the nightlife. Come on.
Yeah. Yeah.

548
00:21:06,868 --> 00:21:08,434
-Hey.
-Yeah, I love it. I love it.

549
00:21:08,434 --> 00:21:10,868
I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

550
00:21:10,868 --> 00:21:14,100
-Right. But the sale prices,
I mean, I mentioned earlier

551
00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:15,734
these townhomes
that we thought would be

552
00:21:15,734 --> 00:21:17,467
where folks bought their
first home,

553
00:21:17,467 --> 00:21:19,067
$800,000 to $1,000,000.

554
00:21:19,067 --> 00:21:22,000
You really can't find a single
family house of any variety

555
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,400
in Shoreline for less than 600.
It's just not there.

556
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,901
And I don't have
a solution for that.

557
00:21:26,901 --> 00:21:31,400
I'm not sure we really can
incentivize for sale properties

558
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,767
the same way
we can rental properties

559
00:21:33,767 --> 00:21:35,434
just because of the way
the financing

560
00:21:35,434 --> 00:21:36,634
and funding streams work.

561
00:21:36,634 --> 00:21:38,267
-Got it. Thank you for that.
Mayor Woodward,

562
00:21:38,267 --> 00:21:40,100
I wanted to ask you
another question

563
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:42,200
with regard to naturally
affordable housing.

564
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,501
And I know you've heard
this phrase, too.

565
00:21:43,501 --> 00:21:45,467
We're talking about older units,
for example,

566
00:21:45,467 --> 00:21:48,400
that might have lower rents
if a lot of builders do end up

567
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,167
jumping in to build new housing

568
00:21:50,167 --> 00:21:52,200
is there any concern
that these older units

569
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,367
might get knocked down
and new units have come in?

570
00:21:54,367 --> 00:21:56,133
I know that's not
happening yet with BOCA,

571
00:21:56,133 --> 00:21:58,734
but that whole concept
of naturally affordable housing

572
00:21:58,734 --> 00:22:00,133
and trying to preserve it,

573
00:22:00,133 --> 00:22:03,100
I think that's part
of this discussion, too.

574
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:05,200
-Yeah, that's something
that we're discussing as well

575
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,067
as as you mentioned,
we haven't seen it.

576
00:22:07,067 --> 00:22:09,567
What we're very concerned
about right now

577
00:22:09,567 --> 00:22:14,000
is anything at the legislature
that would penalize landlords.

578
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,200
And I know that there are
a lot of landlord

579
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,067
tenant protection bills
right now.

580
00:22:18,067 --> 00:22:20,467
Our city council
is considering one themselves.

581
00:22:20,467 --> 00:22:22,534
I think we have
to be very careful.

582
00:22:22,534 --> 00:22:24,167
Tenants need to be supported.

583
00:22:24,167 --> 00:22:29,367
If we have some landlords that
aren't providing safe housing,

584
00:22:29,367 --> 00:22:31,100
we need to address that

585
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:33,601
and we do have that in our city,
maybe about 2%.

586
00:22:33,601 --> 00:22:36,367
But the majority, especially
those mom and pop landlords

587
00:22:36,367 --> 00:22:38,567
we cannot afford
to lose housing

588
00:22:38,567 --> 00:22:41,267
with punitive regulations
and restrictions on them.

589
00:22:41,267 --> 00:22:45,467
And cities that have passed
strict landlord ordinances

590
00:22:45,467 --> 00:22:49,968
have seen thousands of units
lost to families.

591
00:22:49,968 --> 00:22:51,634
-Okay. All right.
Thank you for that.

592
00:22:51,634 --> 00:22:53,300
I just wanted to follow up
with you, Mayor Scully.

593
00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:55,567
This issue of displacement,
naturally,

594
00:22:55,567 --> 00:22:57,834
naturally affordable housing
and this issue,

595
00:22:57,834 --> 00:22:59,167
I think this is a part
of the discussion

596
00:22:59,167 --> 00:23:00,834
for a lot of cities
around the state.

597
00:23:00,834 --> 00:23:03,434
-So in Shoreline,
we're having displacement,

598
00:23:03,434 --> 00:23:06,133
but it's generally not centered
around the light rail.

599
00:23:06,133 --> 00:23:08,968
It's around folks taking
in affordable, older home,

600
00:23:08,968 --> 00:23:11,534
tearing it down and building a
non-affordable, giant new home.

601
00:23:11,534 --> 00:23:13,501
-I see.
-We have a ton of redevelopment

602
00:23:13,501 --> 00:23:15,567
going on in our single
family neighborhoods

603
00:23:15,567 --> 00:23:19,133
and it is all a million,
a million five, big, giant

604
00:23:19,133 --> 00:23:21,367
as much as a lot
as they can cover houses.

605
00:23:21,367 --> 00:23:23,901
It's done by developers.
It's fine.

606
00:23:23,901 --> 00:23:25,834
I mean, it's just the way
the city's going.

607
00:23:25,834 --> 00:23:28,200
But in terms of displacement,
affordable housing,

608
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,667
we're getting way
more affordable housing

609
00:23:29,667 --> 00:23:33,300
from the high rises
than we're losing from losing

610
00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:34,567
the single families
that they replaced.

611
00:23:34,567 --> 00:23:36,934
-I see, I see that
the McMansion factor.

612
00:23:36,934 --> 00:23:39,634
That's part
of what's going on here.

613
00:23:39,634 --> 00:23:42,734
Mayor Scully, I just want to get
to what I see as a basic tension

614
00:23:42,734 --> 00:23:44,100
within this issue.

615
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:45,801
On one side, we've got
the state saying, okay,

616
00:23:45,801 --> 00:23:47,968
we need to bring some equity
to our zoning laws

617
00:23:47,968 --> 00:23:50,067
because in the past
they have not been equitable,

618
00:23:50,067 --> 00:23:51,133
they have been exclusionary.

619
00:23:51,133 --> 00:23:52,501
I think we have
to recognize that.

620
00:23:52,501 --> 00:23:54,434
But on the other side,
you have other cities saying,

621
00:23:54,434 --> 00:23:57,100
hey, don't give us a one size
fits all approach.

622
00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,400
Is there some
middle ground here?

623
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,267
-Well, what I would like
to see happen

624
00:24:01,267 --> 00:24:03,400
is what happened
in Shoreline is mandated.

625
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,667
You have to increase density
by a certain percentage.

626
00:24:05,667 --> 00:24:06,901
We actually already have that.

627
00:24:06,901 --> 00:24:08,400
It just doesn't have
a lot of teeth to it.

628
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,167
And then the local jurisdiction
gets to decide how to do it.

629
00:24:11,167 --> 00:24:14,467
We went block by block,
sometimes parcel by parcel,

630
00:24:14,467 --> 00:24:17,067
trying to decide, okay,
if we allow a high-rise here,

631
00:24:17,067 --> 00:24:18,501
how does that affect
the wetland there?

632
00:24:18,501 --> 00:24:20,033
-Yeah.
-Right? And that's a question.

633
00:24:20,033 --> 00:24:24,000
And you can you can plan
for all that on a global level,

634
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,300
but it's at the local level

635
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:27,367
that you really have to make
the fine distinctions.

636
00:24:27,367 --> 00:24:28,834
Local government should have
the authority

637
00:24:28,834 --> 00:24:30,467
to decide
where the density goes.

638
00:24:30,467 --> 00:24:32,133
We should be required
to put it somewhere.

639
00:24:32,133 --> 00:24:34,200
-Got it. And that's
a big part of this discussion.

640
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,200
Well, Mayor Woodward,
maybe I can follow up with you

641
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,501
on this whole idea of equity,

642
00:24:37,501 --> 00:24:39,267
because I know that was
a very important part

643
00:24:39,267 --> 00:24:41,467
of the discussions
going on around BOCA here.

644
00:24:41,467 --> 00:24:43,234
Clearly, every city
in our state is different.

645
00:24:43,234 --> 00:24:45,334
We're learning
that very much so today.

646
00:24:45,334 --> 00:24:46,934
But is there some middle ground
on zoning

647
00:24:46,934 --> 00:24:48,801
you think that
all cities could agree on?

648
00:24:48,801 --> 00:24:50,868
Any thoughts on that?

649
00:24:50,868 --> 00:24:52,334
-Well, and I agree
with Mayor Scully.

650
00:24:52,334 --> 00:24:55,334
I think it really should be up
to the individual.

651
00:24:55,334 --> 00:24:56,601
Every city is different.

652
00:24:56,601 --> 00:24:59,868
And so that's why we took this
by the reins

653
00:24:59,868 --> 00:25:01,400
and did it ourselves

654
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,000
and did it the way
that we believe would work

655
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,667
by lots of
community engagement.

656
00:25:05,667 --> 00:25:07,167
This is just a pilot project.

657
00:25:07,167 --> 00:25:09,767
Our BOCA is just
a one-year pilot project,

658
00:25:09,767 --> 00:25:11,167
but we are doing right now

659
00:25:11,167 --> 00:25:13,067
is more of that
neighborhood engagement,

660
00:25:13,067 --> 00:25:14,667
talking to the stakeholders,

661
00:25:14,667 --> 00:25:18,300
tweaking what we have already
now as a pilot project

662
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:21,033
and hopefully implementing
something much more permanent

663
00:25:21,033 --> 00:25:23,033
as we go to
our comprehensive plan

664
00:25:23,033 --> 00:25:24,968
and our development codes

665
00:25:24,968 --> 00:25:27,167
and make this permanent
by this summer.

666
00:25:27,167 --> 00:25:29,300
Right. I know it expires in
July. Did you have thought --

667
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:31,367
-Yeah. I want to go back
to the equity thing a bit.

668
00:25:31,367 --> 00:25:32,601
-Please.
-Most of the folks who own homes

669
00:25:32,601 --> 00:25:33,968
in Shoreline have been there
a long time.

670
00:25:33,968 --> 00:25:35,367
And Shoreline
has become increasingly

671
00:25:35,367 --> 00:25:36,901
diverse over the years.

672
00:25:36,901 --> 00:25:38,267
The immigrant folks,

673
00:25:38,267 --> 00:25:39,801
the people who are moving in
from other countries

674
00:25:39,801 --> 00:25:42,400
or other regions for the most
part don't own those properties.

675
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,000
Those properties
are owned by folks

676
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,467
who have been there
a long time and Shoreline

677
00:25:45,467 --> 00:25:46,767
and mostly white folks.
-Yeah.

678
00:25:46,767 --> 00:25:49,734
-So it's not going
to increase equity in that sense

679
00:25:49,734 --> 00:25:51,100
to say all those of you

680
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:53,334
who already own homes,
those homes are more valuable

681
00:25:53,334 --> 00:25:54,667
because now you can
build on them.

682
00:25:54,667 --> 00:25:56,300
-I see.
-That doesn't necessarily

683
00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:58,701
make it accessible for anybody.
That's just a boon for

684
00:25:58,701 --> 00:26:01,033
for individual property owners
who want to do that.

685
00:26:01,033 --> 00:26:02,567
-Okay. Important part
of the discussion. Thank you.

686
00:26:02,567 --> 00:26:04,534
We need to start
wrapping up the show

687
00:26:04,534 --> 00:26:06,267
and I really appreciate
all this back and forth here.

688
00:26:06,267 --> 00:26:08,901
Mayor Woodward, just some
final thoughts from you here

689
00:26:08,901 --> 00:26:10,467
about Spokane's experience
with BOCA

690
00:26:10,467 --> 00:26:14,267
and how that might serve as
an example for state lawmakers

691
00:26:14,267 --> 00:26:17,400
working on this issue of missing
middle housing right now.

692
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,033
-Well, and it's getting
a lot of attention, Brian.

693
00:26:19,033 --> 00:26:21,334
I'll just tell you that our
development services department

694
00:26:21,334 --> 00:26:23,968
and our planning director
are they're getting calls right

695
00:26:23,968 --> 00:26:26,300
and left from not just cities
throughout the state

696
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:28,601
of Washington, but really
throughout the country.

697
00:26:28,601 --> 00:26:30,367
This, as I mentioned,
was a bold move

698
00:26:30,367 --> 00:26:32,868
and it was something
out of such distress,

699
00:26:32,868 --> 00:26:36,300
an emergency crisis, that we
absolutely had to do something.

700
00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:38,934
But it was intentional.
We spent more than a year

701
00:26:38,934 --> 00:26:42,968
looking at this,
having very direct, honest,

702
00:26:42,968 --> 00:26:45,634
transparent conversations
with those who do this work,

703
00:26:45,634 --> 00:26:49,067
those who need housing,
so that we could get to a place

704
00:26:49,067 --> 00:26:51,234
where we had agreement
on this

705
00:26:51,234 --> 00:26:54,133
and try it out
for a year, tweak it.

706
00:26:54,133 --> 00:26:55,834
But we're very happy
with what we have.

707
00:26:55,834 --> 00:26:57,133
It's gotten a lot of interest.

708
00:26:57,133 --> 00:26:59,634
There's a lot of predevelopment
permits out there

709
00:26:59,634 --> 00:27:01,334
and we'll see
what what happens.

710
00:27:01,334 --> 00:27:04,167
But if we make it permanent,
which I hope we do,

711
00:27:04,167 --> 00:27:06,200
that's where we're going
to see the impact

712
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,701
years down the road,
this isn't nothing.

713
00:27:07,701 --> 00:27:09,767
This is going to change
anything overnight.

714
00:27:09,767 --> 00:27:11,534
-Right.
-But we had to do something now

715
00:27:11,534 --> 00:27:13,834
so that we can get the change
that we want at some point.

716
00:27:13,834 --> 00:27:15,167
-Thanks very much.
Mayor Scully,

717
00:27:15,167 --> 00:27:17,534
just thinking about this,
this bill is being tweaked

718
00:27:17,534 --> 00:27:19,634
and changed as we speak here
in mid-February.

719
00:27:19,634 --> 00:27:21,801
What do you want state lawmakers
to be thinking about?

720
00:27:21,801 --> 00:27:23,434
What should they have in mind

721
00:27:23,434 --> 00:27:24,968
as they're talking about
the missing middle bill

722
00:27:24,968 --> 00:27:26,334
and housing this session?

723
00:27:26,334 --> 00:27:29,467
-To mandate that cities
take density to let us decide

724
00:27:29,467 --> 00:27:31,000
exactly how to do it.

725
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,534
I mean, most city councils
take their jobs very seriously,

726
00:27:33,534 --> 00:27:35,968
and this is what we do.
I mean, land use and budget

727
00:27:35,968 --> 00:27:37,934
are the two things
city councils do,

728
00:27:37,934 --> 00:27:39,634
and we are best positioned
to make the decisions

729
00:27:39,634 --> 00:27:40,901
at a local level.

730
00:27:40,901 --> 00:27:42,634
I -- this is a fascinating
conversation for me.

731
00:27:42,634 --> 00:27:45,501
I'd love to follow up on it
because we are looking at this.

732
00:27:45,501 --> 00:27:47,634
I mean, Shoreline is considering
something similar to that

733
00:27:47,634 --> 00:27:49,033
as a city ordinance.

734
00:27:49,033 --> 00:27:50,701
We are unlikely
to do it citywide

735
00:27:50,701 --> 00:27:52,567
for all the reasons
I've mentioned today,

736
00:27:52,567 --> 00:27:55,267
but we're likely to put it into
some neighborhoods

737
00:27:55,267 --> 00:27:56,934
because some of
our neighborhoods

738
00:27:56,934 --> 00:27:59,334
are close enough
to high-capacity transit.

739
00:27:59,334 --> 00:28:01,033
They do have big enough
lot sizes

740
00:28:01,033 --> 00:28:03,801
that this wouldn't really
destroy the character of them.

741
00:28:03,801 --> 00:28:05,868
Others of them, not so much.

742
00:28:05,868 --> 00:28:07,801
It would really be
a dramatic detriment

743
00:28:07,801 --> 00:28:09,634
to what the way
Shoreline looks now.

744
00:28:09,634 --> 00:28:11,400
-Thank you, Mayor Scully.
Thank you, Mayor Woodward,

745
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,133
as well.
And we will be right back.

746
00:28:17,667 --> 00:28:19,567
What are people saying
on social media

747
00:28:19,567 --> 00:28:22,501
about the plan to increase
middle housing in our state?

748
00:28:22,501 --> 00:28:25,868
One person writes,
"If we limit growth in the city,

749
00:28:25,868 --> 00:28:28,901
"we are encouraging sprawl
and environmental destruction

750
00:28:28,901 --> 00:28:31,868
outside of the city."
Another person counters,

751
00:28:31,868 --> 00:28:34,901
"Don't be fooled.
This bill is a developer's dream

752
00:28:34,901 --> 00:28:37,501
and will accomplish
the complete opposite."

753
00:28:37,501 --> 00:28:39,534
We'd like to know
what you think.

754
00:28:39,534 --> 00:28:43,067
Send us an email at
contact@seattlechannel.org.

755
00:28:43,067 --> 00:28:46,767
Or find us on Facebook,
Twitter, and Instagram.

756
00:28:46,767 --> 00:28:49,968
Coming up next week,
the state Supreme Court upended

757
00:28:49,968 --> 00:28:52,868
Washington's drug possession
law two years ago.

758
00:28:52,868 --> 00:28:55,067
And now the clock
is ticking for Olympia

759
00:28:55,067 --> 00:28:57,033
to create
a new legal framework

760
00:28:57,033 --> 00:28:58,734
that balances
criminal punishment

761
00:28:58,734 --> 00:29:00,868
with the need
for treatment solutions.

762
00:29:00,868 --> 00:29:03,534
It's the complex story
behind the Blake Decision

763
00:29:03,534 --> 00:29:05,200
on the next "City Inside Out."

764
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,767
I hope you join us.

765
00:29:07,767 --> 00:29:17,434
♪♪

766
00:29:17,434 --> 00:29:27,133
♪♪