WEBVTT 00:00:20.100 --> 00:00:21.300 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% -Here is what we're going to do today. 00:00:21.300 --> 00:00:22.567 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I'm going to talk about some of the trends. 00:00:22.567 --> 00:00:24.367 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% "Why are we talking about impostors so much?" 00:00:24.367 --> 00:00:27.167 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% you might ask, and Bob alluded to this, so did Mike, 00:00:27.167 --> 00:00:29.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but I'm going to give you a couple more just data points 00:00:29.234 --> 00:00:32.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% about how this is really the type of scam 00:00:32.234 --> 00:00:35.200 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% that's most likely to target us these days, 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:37.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and then we're going to go a little bit deeper on -- 00:00:37.234 --> 00:00:38.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Bob already talked about the IRS. 00:00:38.701 --> 00:00:40.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You'll hear a lot about the IRS today. 00:00:40.901 --> 00:00:43.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You're going to hear from a guy who actually worked 00:00:43.167 --> 00:00:44.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% in one of these scam rooms in a minute, 00:00:44.767 --> 00:00:47.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% though and, likewise, with tech support, 00:00:47.133 --> 00:00:48.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I know Courtney is going to talk about -- 00:00:48.701 --> 00:00:51.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I mean, I know there is some overlap to our presentations, 00:00:51.067 --> 00:00:55.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but we believe that repetition is the mother of learning so -- 00:00:55.601 --> 00:00:58.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% And then just sort of tips on how to avoid this. 00:00:58.701 --> 00:01:01.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Well, here is how we define an impostor: 00:01:01.167 --> 00:01:03.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% a scammer who is pretending to be someone 00:01:03.067 --> 00:01:06.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% they are not in order to trick you out of your money, 00:01:06.467 --> 00:01:09.067 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and, you know, you could argue that that's been true forever 00:01:09.067 --> 00:01:11.567 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% with swindlers and con men that's what they do, 00:01:11.567 --> 00:01:13.667 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% they pretend to be somebody they're not, 00:01:13.667 --> 00:01:15.968 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but there are these three trends 00:01:15.968 --> 00:01:17.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% that Mike already alluded to them, 00:01:17.868 --> 00:01:20.100 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but I'm going to go over them briefly again: 00:01:20.100 --> 00:01:22.968 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% technology, the globalization of the economy 00:01:22.968 --> 00:01:24.267 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and this fear and anxiety 00:01:24.267 --> 00:01:26.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% because we really believe these are the drivers, 00:01:26.868 --> 00:01:28.467 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and all of this is designed -- 00:01:28.467 --> 00:01:31.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% As Mike said, you folks are not going to fall 00:01:31.434 --> 00:01:33.501 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% for the IRS scam, right? 00:01:33.501 --> 00:01:36.334 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I mean, you've heard about it and so forth 00:01:36.334 --> 00:01:38.901 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% or the tech support or any of the things we're talking about, 00:01:38.901 --> 00:01:42.167 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but not everybody who could fall for this is in the room today, 00:01:42.167 --> 00:01:44.067 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% so we really do hope at the end of the day 00:01:44.067 --> 00:01:46.934 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% that you'll take this out and warn others. 00:01:46.934 --> 00:01:49.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% What do we mean by technology driving things? 00:01:49.467 --> 00:01:52.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% To me, I've been studying fraud for 30 years, 00:01:52.100 --> 00:01:55.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and the technology -- I mean, one con artist said, 00:01:55.033 --> 00:01:57.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "If you're not using the Internet to commit your crimes, 00:01:57.167 --> 00:02:00.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% you should be guilty of malpractice" 00:02:00.133 --> 00:02:01.934 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% because it is just so easy 00:02:01.934 --> 00:02:03.801 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% to pretend to be somebody you're not, 00:02:03.801 --> 00:02:07.033 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% whether it's a romance scam or something else, 00:02:07.033 --> 00:02:09.367 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and, you know, you can -- The number of robo -- 00:02:09.367 --> 00:02:14.267 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% How many people have gotten a robo-dial call in the last week? 00:02:14.267 --> 00:02:16.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Everyone, right? Everyone. 00:02:16.067 --> 00:02:19.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It is so easy to just press a button, as Mike said, 00:02:19.434 --> 00:02:23.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and, you know, 500,000 calls come in, and so it behooves -- 00:02:23.501 --> 00:02:24.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You know, it's up to us to come up 00:02:24.934 --> 00:02:28.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% with sort of defenses to these things. 00:02:28.100 --> 00:02:30.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The other thing is just the globalization of the economy. 00:02:30.200 --> 00:02:31.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You could be calling from Malaysia. 00:02:31.601 --> 00:02:32.968 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% You could be calling from India. 00:02:32.968 --> 00:02:34.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% It doesn't really matter. 00:02:34.467 --> 00:02:36.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You can e-mail from all over the world. 00:02:36.200 --> 00:02:37.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It is really, truly a global economy, 00:02:37.834 --> 00:02:41.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and this makes it really hard for law enforcement to stop it 00:02:41.801 --> 00:02:44.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and puts even more pressure on those of us 00:02:44.601 --> 00:02:47.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% in the prevention world to get to people ahead of time, 00:02:47.300 --> 00:02:49.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and the last piece is fear and anxiety. 00:02:49.100 --> 00:02:50.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You know, we live in the age of anxiety. 00:02:50.901 --> 00:02:56.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% There's a lot to be anxious about, and as Mike alluded to, 00:02:56.267 --> 00:02:59.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% there is a lot of good research now 00:02:59.734 --> 00:03:02.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that shows that when we're anxious, 00:03:02.100 --> 00:03:04.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% we just don't make good financial decisions 00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:07.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% or any decisions, really, and the con artist knows that. 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:08.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% They will ratchet up that anxiety, 00:03:08.467 --> 00:03:11.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and you're going to see how they do it in a minute. 00:03:11.267 --> 00:03:12.501 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% The data doesn't lie. 00:03:12.501 --> 00:03:15.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% These are statistics from Consumer Sentinel. 00:03:15.767 --> 00:03:18.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% This is Chuck's organization that shows 00:03:18.501 --> 00:03:22.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% just this meteoric rise of impostor fraud 00:03:22.968 --> 00:03:25.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% reported to the Federal Trade Commission 00:03:25.234 --> 00:03:28.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% over the last 5 years, a huge increase. 00:03:28.501 --> 00:03:30.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% In Washington State, this is the data 00:03:30.567 --> 00:03:33.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% from reports they got from Washington State. 00:03:33.300 --> 00:03:35.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It is by far the number-one thing followed by 00:03:35.868 --> 00:03:39.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% debt collection, telephone, banks and lenders. 00:03:39.934 --> 00:03:41.534 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% We just did a survey, 00:03:41.534 --> 00:03:43.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and I'm going to report we're releasing that today 00:03:43.601 --> 00:03:45.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% as part of the launch of this campaign, 00:03:45.100 --> 00:03:49.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% called "Are You Real? Unmasking the Impostors." 00:03:49.067 --> 00:03:52.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% This was done by Karla Pak, who is sitting right here. 00:03:52.334 --> 00:03:54.234 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Karla Pak is our research guru, 00:03:54.234 --> 00:03:56.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and so I hope I don't get any of this wrong, Karla. 00:03:56.968 --> 00:03:59.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% We surveyed 800 people really recently, like, 00:03:59.601 --> 00:04:02.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% March 28th to April 21st, 00:04:02.467 --> 00:04:04.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and one of the things we asked them was, 00:04:04.267 --> 00:04:06.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "What kind of calls do you get?" 00:04:06.267 --> 00:04:08.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and a huge percentage of the stuff 00:04:08.501 --> 00:04:11.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that we're talking about today, that's not an accident. 00:04:11.200 --> 00:04:12.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The number-one thing people reported 00:04:12.901 --> 00:04:16.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% was that they have gotten the tech support scam, 00:04:16.868 --> 00:04:19.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% which you'll be hearing about quite a bit today. 00:04:19.067 --> 00:04:21.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Whether it's a pop-up that says you've got a virus, 00:04:21.501 --> 00:04:23.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% whether it's somebody calling you saying 00:04:23.367 --> 00:04:26.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% they're from Microsoft, 56% of the people we surveyed 00:04:26.200 --> 00:04:29.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% said they've gotten this in the last 12 months, 00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:30.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and that was by far the number-one thing 00:04:30.734 --> 00:04:33.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% they were targeted with followed by phishing scams, 00:04:33.767 --> 00:04:37.200 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% there's something wrong with your bank account from a bank, 00:04:37.200 --> 00:04:38.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% you know, fill in this personal information, 00:04:38.868 --> 00:04:39.968 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and that's what they're in it for 00:04:39.968 --> 00:04:42.801 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% is your personal identifying information. 00:04:42.801 --> 00:04:45.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% 33%, one out of three people, 00:04:45.234 --> 00:04:48.300 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% lottery scams, IRS and so forth, 00:04:48.300 --> 00:04:51.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% so you can start to see how this breaks down. 00:04:51.234 --> 00:04:56.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% We also gave people a quiz, "What is your impostor IQ?" 00:04:56.534 --> 00:04:58.267 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and let's just go through this. 00:04:58.267 --> 00:04:59.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You don't have to raise your hand or just -- 00:04:59.767 --> 00:05:02.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% But see if you could answer these questions yourself. 00:05:02.834 --> 00:05:06.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Question number one, commercial telemarketing robo-dials, 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% which everyone gets, from companies you don't have 00:05:09.767 --> 00:05:12.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% a previous business relationship with are illegal. 00:05:12.367 --> 00:05:15.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% How many people think that's true? 00:05:15.334 --> 00:05:16.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% How many people think it's false? 00:05:16.868 --> 00:05:20.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% How many people don't know? A lot of people don't know. 00:05:20.934 --> 00:05:24.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It is actually true, and 73% of the people we surveyed 00:05:24.834 --> 00:05:27.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% were either not sure or did not know. 00:05:27.667 --> 00:05:28.868 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Here is another one. 00:05:28.868 --> 00:05:30.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Caller ID is a reliable way to know 00:05:30.300 --> 00:05:32.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% where a telemarketing call is coming from. 00:05:32.400 --> 00:05:33.968 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% True? 00:05:33.968 --> 00:05:36.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% False, very good, false. 00:05:36.467 --> 00:05:39.934 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% 38% didn't know or got that wrong, so we think, 00:05:39.934 --> 00:05:42.133 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% "Oh. Well, if I've got a caller ID thing, 00:05:42.133 --> 00:05:44.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% it says it's calling from 206." 00:05:44.868 --> 00:05:47.701 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% We all know, but not everybody in the state knows, 00:05:47.701 --> 00:05:49.567 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% that that's spoofing. 00:05:49.567 --> 00:05:53.501 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Very few telemarketers use their real phone number now 00:05:53.501 --> 00:05:54.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% because you can just buy a number 00:05:54.968 --> 00:05:58.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and make it look like you're calling from the 206, right, 00:05:58.067 --> 00:05:59.300 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% but not everybody knows that. 00:05:59.300 --> 00:06:01.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% We know it, but not everybody knows it. 00:06:01.200 --> 00:06:03.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% This is an example of a fact that would be great 00:06:03.701 --> 00:06:06.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% to share with your neighbors who may not know this. 00:06:06.133 --> 00:06:08.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Technology companies don't notify customers 00:06:08.367 --> 00:06:10.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% when a virus is spotted on their computer. 00:06:10.734 --> 00:06:12.200 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% True? 00:06:12.200 --> 00:06:13.400 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% False? 00:06:13.400 --> 00:06:15.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% That's true. They don't. 00:06:15.367 --> 00:06:17.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% 44% didn't know that or got it wrong, 00:06:17.834 --> 00:06:19.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and, finally, the IRS is allowed by law 00:06:19.901 --> 00:06:22.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% to call you about back taxes you owe 00:06:22.434 --> 00:06:25.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% without sending written notice first. 00:06:25.033 --> 00:06:27.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% False, very good, and a lot of people did -- 00:06:27.334 --> 00:06:30.133 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Only 23% got that wrong, 00:06:30.133 --> 00:06:34.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% so we'll talk more about that IRS thing in a minute. 00:06:34.400 --> 00:06:38.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So of these 10 questions, 77% of the respondents 00:06:38.534 --> 00:06:41.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% got 60% or less which is kind of a D. 00:06:41.434 --> 00:06:43.634 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% There's -- It's an F. 00:06:43.634 --> 00:06:45.167 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% It's an F. 00:06:45.167 --> 00:06:47.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It's not good. Yes? 00:06:47.801 --> 00:06:50.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Could you e-mail me your presentation? 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:53.033 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% It's going really fast. 00:06:53.033 --> 00:06:55.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Is it going too fast for you? -Yes. 00:06:55.434 --> 00:06:57.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -We could probably post it online. 00:06:57.834 --> 00:06:58.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Okay. -Yeah. 00:06:58.834 --> 00:07:00.100 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% We don't want to -- 00:07:00.100 --> 00:07:01.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I'm not trying to hide anything from you. 00:07:01.267 --> 00:07:03.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -No, no, no, no. I just want to go back to it. 00:07:03.334 --> 00:07:05.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Okay, but you reminded me to slow down. 00:07:05.534 --> 00:07:06.634 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% I appreciate that. 00:07:06.634 --> 00:07:08.534 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% No, really. 00:07:08.534 --> 00:07:12.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I tend together too revved up about this thing, 00:07:12.334 --> 00:07:14.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and so part of the other survey -- 00:07:14.133 --> 00:07:16.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So we sort of have this general conclusion 00:07:16.234 --> 00:07:17.767 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% that not everybody knows 00:07:17.767 --> 00:07:20.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% the tactics impostors use to defend themselves. 00:07:20.367 --> 00:07:23.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Yet when we ask them, "How confident are you 00:07:23.167 --> 00:07:25.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that you could spot one of these scams?" 00:07:25.167 --> 00:07:29.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% 87% said that they're pretty confident, 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:32.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and another 85% said that they're pretty sure 00:07:32.367 --> 00:07:34.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% they won't fall for a fraudulent pitch. 00:07:34.234 --> 00:07:37.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So you have this confluence of really showing 00:07:37.767 --> 00:07:40.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that they don't really know what the tactics are exactly to spot 00:07:40.834 --> 00:07:43.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but a lot of confidence that they won't be taken, 00:07:43.501 --> 00:07:47.601 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and this is something you will encounter as our fraud fighters 00:07:47.601 --> 00:07:49.367 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% now going out into the world. 00:07:49.367 --> 00:07:51.834 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Nobody thinks they're going to fall for any of this. 00:07:51.834 --> 00:07:54.634 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% It's known as the illusion of invulnerability. 00:07:54.634 --> 00:07:56.334 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% In the health psychology literature, 00:07:56.334 --> 00:07:57.934 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% this has been true for years. 00:07:57.934 --> 00:07:59.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% People say, "You know what? 00:07:59.434 --> 00:08:03.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% People get cancer, but I won't," right? 00:08:03.634 --> 00:08:05.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You don't want to think about it, whether. 00:08:05.167 --> 00:08:06.501 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% You're in denial. 00:08:06.501 --> 00:08:07.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Well, if you never think you're going to get cancer, 00:08:07.767 --> 00:08:10.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% you'll never do anything to prevent it, 00:08:10.501 --> 00:08:12.434 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and the same is true with this. 00:08:12.434 --> 00:08:14.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% If you never think you're going to be taken, 00:08:14.467 --> 00:08:18.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% you'll never take steps to avoid it other than this general idea 00:08:18.634 --> 00:08:20.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that I'm just not going to fall for it 00:08:20.934 --> 00:08:23.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% because I'm too smart, and my pet peeve -- 00:08:23.634 --> 00:08:25.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I won't go into too much detail about this, 00:08:25.701 --> 00:08:28.000 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% but you know this phrase, 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:30.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is?" 00:08:30.634 --> 00:08:33.634 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I hate that phrase. Why? 00:08:33.634 --> 00:08:35.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Because it assumes -- 00:08:35.434 --> 00:08:38.968 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% It's a perfectly logical thing to say and to think, 00:08:38.968 --> 00:08:41.200 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but that assumes that you're thinking logically 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.834 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and rationally at the moment you make that decision, 00:08:43.834 --> 00:08:46.434 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and the con man's great gift 00:08:46.434 --> 00:08:48.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% is to put you into an emotional state 00:08:48.701 --> 00:08:51.167 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% so you don't think logically. 00:08:51.167 --> 00:08:54.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So if you're only relying on your rational mind 00:08:54.033 --> 00:08:55.901 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and not managing your emotions, 00:08:55.901 --> 00:08:58.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% managing whether you're vulnerable or not, 00:08:58.033 --> 00:08:59.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% it's like locking a safe, 00:08:59.467 --> 00:09:01.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% you know, you're locking your money in a safe 00:09:01.234 --> 00:09:04.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that the con man has the key to really. 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:05.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% It's really more and more 00:09:05.701 --> 00:09:09.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% about managing people's emotions in their vulnerable state, 00:09:09.234 --> 00:09:13.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% not about intelligence or brain power. 00:09:13.300 --> 00:09:16.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So let me introduce you to two characters 00:09:16.400 --> 00:09:18.367 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% that we recently interviewed. 00:09:18.367 --> 00:09:24.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% One of them, Jayesh, the guy on the left, is from India, 00:09:24.133 --> 00:09:27.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and the other guy, Dan, is from South Florida, 00:09:27.534 --> 00:09:32.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and both of them worked in fraudulent boiler rooms 00:09:32.767 --> 00:09:36.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that did various bad things to people in the United States, 00:09:36.634 --> 00:09:38.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and the one thing I want to say about these two 00:09:38.234 --> 00:09:39.634 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% by way of introduction, 00:09:39.634 --> 00:09:41.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% we've interviewed a lot of con men. 00:09:41.133 --> 00:09:43.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Usually -- Bruce and I, for years, 00:09:43.234 --> 00:09:44.667 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% have gone into prisons 00:09:44.667 --> 00:09:46.801 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and interviewed guys in orange jumpsuits. 00:09:46.801 --> 00:09:50.133 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% These are really bad guys, drug dealers, you know, 00:09:50.133 --> 00:09:53.067 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and they tell us how they did it, and that's the thing. 00:09:53.067 --> 00:09:54.901 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% There is this growth in people 00:09:54.901 --> 00:09:56.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% like these two guys who aren't really -- 00:09:56.868 --> 00:09:59.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% These two guys were never charged with any crime, 00:09:59.267 --> 00:10:01.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and they were never convicted of any crime, 00:10:01.501 --> 00:10:03.400 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% yet they did the work. 00:10:03.400 --> 00:10:04.968 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% They did these calls, 00:10:04.968 --> 00:10:07.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and increasingly you're seeing boiler rooms in South Florida. 00:10:07.968 --> 00:10:10.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% They have hundreds and hundreds of these people 00:10:10.133 --> 00:10:13.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% who are just young people looking for a job, 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and they get caught up in these rooms, 00:10:15.067 --> 00:10:17.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and what I'm going to take you through here in the time 00:10:17.400 --> 00:10:20.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that I have is to go a little deeper 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:23.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% into both the IRS scam and the tech support scam, 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:24.501 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and I know both Chuck and Courtney 00:10:24.501 --> 00:10:25.634 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% are going to touch on this. 00:10:25.634 --> 00:10:27.167 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Courtney, in particular, 00:10:27.167 --> 00:10:30.701 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% is sort of the tech support expert from Microsoft, 00:10:30.701 --> 00:10:33.968 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and she's really, really an expert on it. 00:10:33.968 --> 00:10:35.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% We're just going to take you through 00:10:35.234 --> 00:10:37.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% what these two guys talked to us about for a minute, 00:10:37.868 --> 00:10:41.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% so you can get a real feel for how they do it 00:10:41.467 --> 00:10:44.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and especially how they focus on getting you 00:10:44.434 --> 00:10:47.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% into a heightened emotional state 00:10:47.400 --> 00:10:48.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% which, in both cases, 00:10:48.701 --> 00:10:52.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% tends to be fear, fear and anxiety, 00:10:52.467 --> 00:10:55.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% fear that something is terribly wrong. 00:10:55.367 --> 00:10:57.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So let's see. Let's see. 00:10:57.934 --> 00:10:59.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% I'm going to play this tape, 00:10:59.701 --> 00:11:02.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and you've probably all heard it before, 00:11:02.634 --> 00:11:03.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but we're going to play it again. 00:11:03.901 --> 00:11:07.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% This is a call that came in recently. 00:11:29.367 --> 00:11:32.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% How many people have gotten that call? 00:11:32.701 --> 00:11:36.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Half, at least, of the audience, so that's out there, 00:11:36.400 --> 00:11:39.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and, you know, we've heard these reports from TCA 00:11:39.067 --> 00:11:41.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and other places that they're bombarding Americans, 00:11:41.467 --> 00:11:45.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but who is the person on the other end of the phone? 00:11:45.234 --> 00:11:46.567 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Who is that person, 00:11:46.567 --> 00:11:48.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% or who is the person you end up talking to? 00:11:48.834 --> 00:11:50.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% And this is where we want to introduce you 00:11:50.501 --> 00:11:54.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% to one person who we interviewed who actually worked in one 00:11:54.534 --> 00:11:56.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% of these boiler rooms in India, and this is the first -- 00:11:56.734 --> 00:11:59.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You're the first people to see this 00:11:59.133 --> 00:12:01.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% since we filmed this guy in India. 00:12:03.834 --> 00:12:07.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Meet Internal Revenue Service officer Adam Smith, 00:12:07.100 --> 00:12:10.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% better known to his family and friends as Jayesh Dubey, 00:12:10.167 --> 00:12:12.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% a 19-year-old in Mumbai, India. 00:12:25.567 --> 00:12:27.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Jayesh and his friend Pawan Poojary 00:12:27.968 --> 00:12:29.033 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% were looking for work 00:12:29.033 --> 00:12:30.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% when they heard about an opportunity 00:12:30.467 --> 00:12:33.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% in one of Mumbai's many telephone call centers. 00:12:33.634 --> 00:12:36.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% He was impressed by the office and the size of the operation. 00:12:45.801 --> 00:12:48.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% He was especially impressed by the salary. 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:10.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Jayesh started off just answering calls from America, 00:13:10.667 --> 00:13:13.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% getting basic information and handing the victim off 00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:15.100 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% to an experienced closer. 00:13:15.100 --> 00:13:16.801 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% As he gained skill on the phone, 00:13:16.801 --> 00:13:18.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% he handled the whole call himself, 00:13:18.934 --> 00:13:20.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% getting the victim to hand over the money 00:13:20.601 --> 00:13:23.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% to pay their fictitious tax bill. 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The phone room reached out all over the United States 00:13:25.634 --> 00:13:27.234 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% every day. 00:13:36.133 --> 00:13:38.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% As he talked to more and more Americans, he and Pawan 00:13:38.834 --> 00:13:42.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% began to feel bad for the people they were stealing from. 00:14:00.534 --> 00:14:02.267 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% They decided to quit, 00:14:02.267 --> 00:14:04.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and they were fortunate not to be at the office 00:14:04.167 --> 00:14:08.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% when 200 Indian police officers descended on the operation. 00:14:08.267 --> 00:14:11.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Police blocked the exits, detained more than 700 people 00:14:11.334 --> 00:14:14.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% working that day and seized everything inside. 00:14:14.968 --> 00:14:16.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Authorities determined the office 00:14:16.434 --> 00:14:18.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% was just a branch of a larger operation 00:14:18.400 --> 00:14:21.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that made over 1.8 million calls to America 00:14:21.801 --> 00:14:25.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and stole hundreds of millions of dollars. 00:14:25.100 --> 00:14:27.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Today, Jayesh is speaking out about his experience 00:14:27.601 --> 00:14:30.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and the tactics he used in the boiler rooms of India 00:14:30.133 --> 00:14:31.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% to defraud Americans, 00:14:31.467 --> 00:14:33.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and he has one message above all. 00:14:49.701 --> 00:14:52.167 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% -So there you have it. That was Bruce Carlson. 00:14:52.167 --> 00:14:54.634 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Bruce, nice job on that video. 00:14:54.634 --> 00:14:55.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Yeah. Good job. 00:14:55.868 --> 00:14:57.167 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% [ Applause ] 00:14:57.167 --> 00:15:00.067 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Thank you. 00:15:00.067 --> 00:15:02.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% What we want to do now, now that you've met him, 00:15:02.234 --> 00:15:05.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% is go -- Oh, there's Bruce. He's in the back, very shy. 00:15:05.634 --> 00:15:09.067 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% He's very shy and withdrawn. 00:15:09.067 --> 00:15:13.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% We want to take you through just for a couple minutes -- 00:15:13.300 --> 00:15:14.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% go a little deeper. 00:15:14.467 --> 00:15:17.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% What happens if you call back the number? 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:20.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% How many of you who got that call called the number back 00:15:20.534 --> 00:15:22.501 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% to find out what it was? 00:15:22.501 --> 00:15:24.601 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Not very many, hardly any. 00:15:24.601 --> 00:15:26.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Well, you heard him say that they were doing 00:15:26.133 --> 00:15:28.100 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% 50,000 calls a day. 00:15:28.100 --> 00:15:29.801 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% 10,000 people called back. 00:15:29.801 --> 00:15:31.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I mean, if you get one of these calls, 00:15:31.667 --> 00:15:33.167 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% you're not sure what it is. 00:15:33.167 --> 00:15:37.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I mean, the IRS is scary, right, and so what do they really say? 00:15:37.667 --> 00:15:40.267 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% And we are going to -- 00:15:40.267 --> 00:15:43.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% We had, you know, one of our super-duper fraud fighters, 00:15:43.334 --> 00:15:45.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I won't say where they were or who they are, 00:15:45.534 --> 00:15:47.968 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% talk through, call back 00:15:47.968 --> 00:15:50.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and see what they really say, so let's listen, 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:54.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and then we'll hear Jayesh comment about it. 00:16:49.133 --> 00:16:50.901 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% That's pretty scary, right? 00:16:50.901 --> 00:16:53.968 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% One of the things that Jayesh told me when we interviewed him 00:16:53.968 --> 00:16:55.300 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% was this works 00:16:55.300 --> 00:16:58.000 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% especially well for people who live by themselves, 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.367 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% who don't have another adult living with them who can say, 00:17:00.367 --> 00:17:02.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% "What? Come on. What do you mean?" 00:17:02.868 --> 00:17:05.801 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Section 7201, Chuck, correct me if I'm wrong, 00:17:05.801 --> 00:17:08.334 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% is an actual part of the tax code, 00:17:08.334 --> 00:17:11.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% so they're doing their research about this, and it's -- 00:17:11.300 --> 00:17:14.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You know, the best lie is based on some degree of truth, 00:17:14.667 --> 00:17:17.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and so -- But that gets very scary 00:17:17.133 --> 00:17:19.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% very quickly for people who live by themselves. 00:17:19.801 --> 00:17:21.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Let's hear what Jayesh has to say about it. 00:17:40.634 --> 00:17:43.767 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% And could you imagine just hundreds and hundreds -- 00:17:43.767 --> 00:17:45.901 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I mean, when they busted this room, 00:17:45.901 --> 00:17:48.634 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% they detained 700 people 00:17:48.634 --> 00:17:51.400 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% that were in this building in downtown Mumbai. 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:54.534 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% 700 people were doing this, 00:17:54.534 --> 00:17:56.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and I don't know where this call came from. 00:17:56.234 --> 00:17:58.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It might have been Mumbai. It might have been Malaysia. 00:17:58.167 --> 00:18:01.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It might have been, who knows, South Africa, 00:18:01.534 --> 00:18:04.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but all of the tactics we've identified 00:18:04.367 --> 00:18:06.601 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% before about source credibility, 00:18:06.601 --> 00:18:08.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% pretending to be -- Oh, look at this. 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:09.834 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% He's talking about being the -- 00:18:09.834 --> 00:18:11.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% working with the attorney general. 00:18:11.267 --> 00:18:14.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I wonder if Bob knows this. Let's... 00:18:51.868 --> 00:18:53.634 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% So as you resist -- 00:18:53.634 --> 00:18:55.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% This is one of the dangers of even calling. 00:18:55.567 --> 00:18:57.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% As you resist more and more, 00:18:57.701 --> 00:19:00.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% they ratchet up the threats, and this is -- 00:19:00.534 --> 00:19:01.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Let's hear from Jayesh about this. 00:19:19.133 --> 00:19:21.334 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Yeah, so we know that it's not true, 00:19:21.334 --> 00:19:22.901 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but hearing it from the guy in the room 00:19:22.901 --> 00:19:24.133 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% saying, "No. We weren't recording it, 00:19:24.133 --> 00:19:26.167 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and no, we don't know any attorney generals." 00:19:26.167 --> 00:19:27.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I mean, we now know an attorney general, 00:19:27.868 --> 00:19:33.667 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but so, Shannon, I hope you're listening to that one. 00:19:33.667 --> 00:19:35.801 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Then as you resist more and say, 00:19:35.801 --> 00:19:37.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "How do I know this is even true?" 00:19:37.801 --> 00:19:40.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% they ratchet up the pressure even more to the point of, 00:19:40.267 --> 00:19:42.000 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% in this particular call, 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% they had the audacity to tell the victim, 00:19:45.601 --> 00:19:47.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "You don't believe me, so what I want you to do 00:19:47.667 --> 00:19:49.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% is go down to the police station. 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:52.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I'm going to fax your documents to the police station, 00:19:52.901 --> 00:19:55.067 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and they will arrest you, 00:19:55.067 --> 00:19:58.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and then that will prove that I'm real," so let's listen. 00:20:34.801 --> 00:20:37.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Confident. That's a confident -- 00:20:37.434 --> 00:20:41.467 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I guess that's why they call them con men maybe, 00:20:41.467 --> 00:20:44.567 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but you could imagine somebody, an older person living alone, 00:20:44.567 --> 00:20:47.467 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% having this conversation, trying to resist, 00:20:47.467 --> 00:20:49.834 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and they just ratchet up the threats. 00:20:49.834 --> 00:20:51.267 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% So what does Jayesh say? 00:20:51.267 --> 00:20:52.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Is any of that real? 00:21:20.801 --> 00:21:22.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So, again, for this audience here, 00:21:22.968 --> 00:21:25.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% who never would fall for this, you say, "I know. I know. 00:21:25.167 --> 00:21:27.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I know," but part of the reason we make these videos 00:21:27.601 --> 00:21:30.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and try and distribute them online, in person, 00:21:30.467 --> 00:21:34.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% is for that person who may be alone getting this call 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:37.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and doesn't believe that it isn't true. 00:21:37.667 --> 00:21:40.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The conclusion to this -- Well, one conclusion is this 00:21:40.868 --> 00:21:42.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% is the mastermind they just arrested, 00:21:42.834 --> 00:21:45.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and our guy, Jayesh, actually met this guy, 00:21:45.334 --> 00:21:48.100 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Sagar "Shaggy" Thakar, 00:21:48.100 --> 00:21:51.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% a 24-year-old entrepreneur who was the mastermind. 00:21:51.234 --> 00:21:55.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% He had multiple boiler rooms all over India and Malaysia. 00:21:55.701 --> 00:21:57.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The reason he eventually turned himself in, 00:21:57.601 --> 00:22:01.033 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and this is just last month, according to news reports, 00:22:01.033 --> 00:22:03.133 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% was that his girlfriend threatened 00:22:03.133 --> 00:22:05.267 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% to break up with him if he didn't turn himself in, 00:22:05.267 --> 00:22:09.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and that's the only reason he turned himself in I guess. 00:22:09.234 --> 00:22:11.767 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% It's the power of love, you know. 00:22:11.767 --> 00:22:14.267 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% [ Laughter ] 00:22:14.267 --> 00:22:17.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% But the thing that really kind of boggles my mind 00:22:17.701 --> 00:22:20.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% is how they actually got people to pay the money. 00:22:20.234 --> 00:22:21.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Remember how he said, at one point, 00:22:21.467 --> 00:22:24.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that, "You owe $7,212 exactly?" 00:22:24.534 --> 00:22:28.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% They have them go down to Walmart or a department store 00:22:28.267 --> 00:22:32.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and buy iTunes cards, you know, like $500. 00:22:32.667 --> 00:22:34.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% "Put $500 on an iTunes card, 00:22:34.467 --> 00:22:37.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% then call me and read me back the number." 00:22:37.367 --> 00:22:39.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Once you read them back that number, 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:41.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that money, they can cash that money, 00:22:41.734 --> 00:22:44.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and it's gone forever, and you can't trace it, 00:22:44.267 --> 00:22:47.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and how they convince them to go from, 00:22:47.100 --> 00:22:49.133 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% "You owe the IRS money," 00:22:49.133 --> 00:22:50.701 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% to, "You've got to buy an iTunes card," 00:22:50.701 --> 00:22:53.300 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% we explored this with Jayesh at length, 00:22:53.300 --> 00:22:55.100 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and it's this convoluted thing about, 00:22:55.100 --> 00:22:56.400 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% "Well, we have a partnership with them, 00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:58.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and it's an electronic transfer system," 00:22:58.434 --> 00:23:00.400 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and it really doesn't make any sense, 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% but remember, again, 00:23:02.467 --> 00:23:04.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% us sitting on the outside of this transaction, 00:23:04.634 --> 00:23:06.033 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% you're not under the ether, 00:23:06.033 --> 00:23:09.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% the emotional vibrations they've created, 00:23:09.567 --> 00:23:11.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% the fear they've created. 00:23:11.467 --> 00:23:12.968 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% You're not thinking rationally. 00:23:12.968 --> 00:23:14.601 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% You just want to get out of it, 00:23:14.601 --> 00:23:16.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and they give you a way to get out of it. 00:23:16.801 --> 00:23:20.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% They'll even hire a cab to come to your house, 00:23:20.300 --> 00:23:23.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% take you down to the local Walmart to get these iTunes -- 00:23:23.167 --> 00:23:27.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You know, it's just crazy how they can be convincing. 00:23:27.434 --> 00:23:29.067 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% So the IRS has warnings. 00:23:29.067 --> 00:23:30.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You will hear this over and over again. 00:23:30.968 --> 00:23:33.567 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Obviously they don't -- 00:23:33.567 --> 00:23:36.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You don't pay your tax bill by getting a green dot card 00:23:36.267 --> 00:23:38.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% or wiring money or anything like that. 00:23:38.701 --> 00:23:39.901 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% We all know that. 00:23:39.901 --> 00:23:42.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% We need to keep warning people of that. 00:23:42.701 --> 00:23:44.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% IRS will never call or robo-dial you 00:23:44.501 --> 00:23:48.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% without first sending you written notice. 00:23:48.601 --> 00:23:50.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The IRS did just recently announce 00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:55.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that they will be contracting with collection agencies 00:23:55.300 --> 00:23:58.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% to do some of the collection of back debts, which we have -- 00:23:58.968 --> 00:24:01.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% is worrisome to me because the con artists 00:24:01.601 --> 00:24:04.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% will be able to pretend to be those debt collection agencies, 00:24:04.834 --> 00:24:07.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but, nevertheless, they won't call 00:24:07.267 --> 00:24:09.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% until they've written to you. You should know about it first. 00:24:09.434 --> 00:24:12.634 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% You shouldn't just get a call, and if you do get a call, 00:24:12.634 --> 00:24:16.667 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% obviously call independently and see what your tax status is. 00:24:16.667 --> 00:24:19.033 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% So that's the IRS scam, 00:24:19.033 --> 00:24:20.667 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% taking you inside the boiler room, 00:24:20.667 --> 00:24:22.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% trying to unmask some of these people 00:24:22.300 --> 00:24:23.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and show you who they are. 00:24:23.467 --> 00:24:25.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The next one I want to get to is, 00:24:25.434 --> 00:24:27.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and again, you'll hear more about this from Courtney 00:24:27.167 --> 00:24:30.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% because she's really the expert, but the tech support thing, 00:24:30.367 --> 00:24:32.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% you saw that 56% of the people 00:24:32.334 --> 00:24:34.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% in the state of Washington we surveyed 00:24:34.734 --> 00:24:39.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% had some kind of tech support scam experience 00:24:39.667 --> 00:24:41.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% in the last year. 00:24:41.467 --> 00:24:43.067 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% This guy worked -- 00:24:43.067 --> 00:24:46.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Well, let's just play the video, and we'll introduce you to him. 00:24:46.167 --> 00:24:47.667 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% -Meet Dan Goldstein. 00:24:47.667 --> 00:24:50.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Posing as a computer technician, he was part of an operation 00:24:50.567 --> 00:24:53.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that sold phony computer support services over the phone. 00:24:53.968 --> 00:24:57.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -The consumers would end up on the phone with me 00:24:57.934 --> 00:25:01.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% by either seeing an advertisement 00:25:01.033 --> 00:25:04.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% or by actively looking out for a PC cleaner, 00:25:04.968 --> 00:25:06.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% which was a downloadable software 00:25:06.934 --> 00:25:08.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that they could put on their system 00:25:08.767 --> 00:25:11.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that would clean the background of their files 00:25:11.067 --> 00:25:13.534 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and speed up their PC. 00:25:13.534 --> 00:25:16.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Dan's outfit operated a boiler room in South Florida 00:25:16.534 --> 00:25:18.434 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% under a variety of names. 00:25:18.434 --> 00:25:21.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The company and its various aliases were all sued 00:25:21.267 --> 00:25:24.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% by the Federal Trade Commission in 2014. 00:25:24.234 --> 00:25:29.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -It was just a very large open area with approximately, 00:25:29.300 --> 00:25:31.501 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% I'd say, about 12 or 13 tables 00:25:31.501 --> 00:25:36.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that were probably 40 to 50-feet-long each, 00:25:36.267 --> 00:25:38.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and each table was packed with computers 00:25:38.734 --> 00:25:40.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and people sitting in front of every computer. 00:25:40.868 --> 00:25:43.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The first couple of tables were called the bone pickers. 00:25:43.834 --> 00:25:46.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Their job was to pick the meat off the bone, 00:25:46.601 --> 00:25:49.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% essentially try and get as much money 00:25:49.367 --> 00:25:51.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that we couldn't get from you at the beginning. 00:25:51.934 --> 00:25:54.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Dan's job was to get the caller to give him control 00:25:54.534 --> 00:25:56.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% of their computer and then sell the victim 00:25:56.634 --> 00:25:59.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% a variety of computer tech support services, 00:25:59.334 --> 00:26:01.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% none of them with any real value, 00:26:01.300 --> 00:26:03.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that could add up to thousands of dollars. 00:26:03.367 --> 00:26:05.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -I didn't go in, again, knowing that it was a scam, 00:26:05.801 --> 00:26:07.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but when the FTC brought it down, 00:26:07.767 --> 00:26:11.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% by that point, I was well aware of what the company was. 00:26:11.567 --> 00:26:15.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It hit me that what we were doing was, indeed, 00:26:15.634 --> 00:26:17.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% very dishonest and immoral, 00:26:17.701 --> 00:26:21.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and you started to really see that what was happening 00:26:21.067 --> 00:26:24.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% was not exactly what we were presenting. 00:26:26.234 --> 00:26:29.501 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% -Pleased, right? So how does this work? 00:26:29.501 --> 00:26:30.767 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% And, again, I'm going to describe 00:26:30.767 --> 00:26:33.334 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% just one iteration of the tech support scam. 00:26:33.334 --> 00:26:35.701 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I think Courtney is going to talk about other examples, 00:26:35.701 --> 00:26:37.267 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but in this particular case, 00:26:37.267 --> 00:26:40.534 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% he's talking about the Federal Trade Commission, 00:26:40.534 --> 00:26:43.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Chuck's organization, and the Florida AG's office 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% brought suit against this company. 00:26:46.033 --> 00:26:48.601 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% This was in 2014, 00:26:48.601 --> 00:26:50.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and essentially what they were alleging 00:26:50.267 --> 00:26:52.334 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% is that you'd go online. 00:26:52.334 --> 00:26:54.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You're worried that your computer is running slowly, say, 00:26:54.834 --> 00:26:56.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% so you'll either see a pop-up ad, 00:26:56.968 --> 00:26:58.968 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% or you'll Google, you know, 00:26:58.968 --> 00:27:01.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% how to fix my computer or how to clean my computer, 00:27:01.968 --> 00:27:05.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and something like this ad will come up, PC Cleaner. 00:27:05.367 --> 00:27:08.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You can fix, clean and speed up your PC in minutes. 00:27:08.033 --> 00:27:11.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% There is a free scan, they'll say, you know, 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% so you click on it to scan your computer 00:27:14.067 --> 00:27:17.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% to see whether there's any problems with it, 00:27:17.100 --> 00:27:20.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and one of the things the FTC did in this case 00:27:20.267 --> 00:27:24.601 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% that I thought was very creative is they hired a computer expert, 00:27:24.601 --> 00:27:28.934 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and they set up the company by first buying a new computer 00:27:28.934 --> 00:27:30.400 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% that had never been used, 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:32.634 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% having the expert look at it in detail. 00:27:32.634 --> 00:27:34.701 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% It's running perfectly. 00:27:34.701 --> 00:27:36.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% There's no problems with it, 00:27:36.467 --> 00:27:39.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and then they clicked on this software, 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and this is the screen that always comes up, 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:43.901 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and this screen says 00:27:43.901 --> 00:27:48.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that you've got 8,056 problems with your computer. 00:27:48.934 --> 00:27:51.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% There is 928 problems about viruses. 00:27:51.734 --> 00:27:54.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% There is 6,800 and -- There's traced temp files. 00:27:54.767 --> 00:27:57.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% This is counting all kinds of things on your computer 00:27:57.934 --> 00:27:59.501 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% that are on everyone's computer, 00:27:59.501 --> 00:28:01.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it, 00:28:01.701 --> 00:28:04.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but you look at this, and you say, "Oh, my God. 00:28:04.834 --> 00:28:07.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% There's 8,056 things wrong," right? 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:08.901 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% So then they'll say, "Fix all." 00:28:08.901 --> 00:28:10.200 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% See the button that says, "Fix all"? 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:11.467 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% You'll click that. 00:28:11.467 --> 00:28:15.000 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% You pay them $30, so now they have your credit card, 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:18.334 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and it downloads the software, and they say, 00:28:18.334 --> 00:28:22.067 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% "To activate this software, you have to call an 800 number." 00:28:22.067 --> 00:28:25.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You don't, really, but everyone calls the 800 number. 00:28:25.667 --> 00:28:29.501 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% 425,000 people called this over 00:28:29.501 --> 00:28:31.100 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% about a 2-year period, 00:28:31.100 --> 00:28:35.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and when they call, that's when they get this guy. 00:28:35.100 --> 00:28:36.334 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% He's in the room, 00:28:36.334 --> 00:28:39.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and then he takes us through what happens next. 00:28:39.300 --> 00:28:43.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -My job then would be to access your computer remotely. 00:28:43.434 --> 00:28:46.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The first thing I would do would be to pull up your task manager. 00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:48.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% We would go right down here where it says, 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "Processes: 94," and I would tell you, 00:28:51.033 --> 00:28:53.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "Oh, my God. You have so many things 00:28:53.267 --> 00:28:55.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% running in the background. This is insane. 00:28:55.033 --> 00:28:57.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% No wonder your computer is moving so slowly," 00:28:57.701 --> 00:28:59.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and you can see even though it's 94 processes, 00:28:59.934 --> 00:29:02.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% it's really not using any of your computer, 00:29:02.234 --> 00:29:04.234 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% but people don't know that. 00:29:04.234 --> 00:29:05.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% All they see is this giant number here, 00:29:05.934 --> 00:29:09.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and I say, "You shouldn't have anything more than 10." 00:29:09.767 --> 00:29:11.667 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% -He'd say, "10" if it was 94, 00:29:11.667 --> 00:29:15.033 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but if there were 340, he'd say, "39." 00:29:15.033 --> 00:29:16.868 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% He had this formula where whatever the number 00:29:16.868 --> 00:29:18.534 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% of processes running were, I would just say, 00:29:18.534 --> 00:29:21.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% "You shouldn't have more than 10% of that," right, 00:29:21.434 --> 00:29:23.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% which means it's not really analyzing anything. 00:29:23.234 --> 00:29:25.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% He's just making it up, and so -- 00:29:25.300 --> 00:29:27.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% But this starts to scare a person, right? 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:29.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Not only were there 8,056 things wrong, 00:29:29.634 --> 00:29:32.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but now there's this problem with the processes, 00:29:32.601 --> 00:29:34.033 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% the task manager, 00:29:34.033 --> 00:29:36.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and then he takes it a step, another step. 00:29:36.267 --> 00:29:39.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% All of these are fear tactics that get you, again, 00:29:39.367 --> 00:29:41.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% into the ether of fear and anxiety, 00:29:41.934 --> 00:29:43.567 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% so you're not thinking clearly. 00:29:43.567 --> 00:29:45.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Then he goes to the error log tactic. 00:29:45.567 --> 00:29:47.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Without question, the scare tactic 00:29:47.434 --> 00:29:49.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that worked best was the error log. 00:29:49.801 --> 00:29:52.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It was the cherry on the icing of the cake, essentially, 00:29:52.234 --> 00:29:54.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% is all of a sudden this error log would come up, 00:29:54.434 --> 00:29:55.901 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and for most people's computers, 00:29:55.901 --> 00:29:58.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% it would have thousands and thousands 00:29:58.267 --> 00:30:01.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and thousands of errors from the day they owned the computer, 00:30:01.767 --> 00:30:04.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and that was certainly an eye-opener 00:30:04.701 --> 00:30:06.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% for a lot of people to think that 00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:08.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% there was definitely something going on behind the scenes 00:30:08.868 --> 00:30:12.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that they didn't realize was happening with the computer. 00:30:12.534 --> 00:30:14.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -But what are those error logs, right? 00:30:14.434 --> 00:30:15.667 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% You get these screens. 00:30:15.667 --> 00:30:16.934 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Everybody has these. 00:30:16.934 --> 00:30:18.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It's another one of those things on a computer 00:30:18.834 --> 00:30:20.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% if you tried to log onto a website, 00:30:20.534 --> 00:30:23.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and your Wi-Fi wasn't on, error, right? 00:30:23.901 --> 00:30:27.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Your virus might detect a bad website, warning, right? 00:30:27.734 --> 00:30:30.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% That's warning you of people like him, not warning you 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:31.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% there's something wrong with your computer, 00:30:31.868 --> 00:30:33.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but they use stuff that's on the computer 00:30:33.834 --> 00:30:35.200 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% that's benign to get you 00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:37.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% to think that they need the problem, 00:30:37.167 --> 00:30:40.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and, of course, all of it leads to the -- 00:30:40.567 --> 00:30:43.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% what it really leads to is you buying, 00:30:43.501 --> 00:30:46.467 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% spending $300 to get it fixed, 00:30:46.467 --> 00:30:49.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and one of the questions we asked him was, 00:30:49.267 --> 00:30:51.234 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% these people in the rooms, 00:30:51.234 --> 00:30:54.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% were they really people from Microsoft? 00:30:54.100 --> 00:30:56.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I mean, are they digital crime unit work? 00:30:56.267 --> 00:30:57.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% They link them up to the digital crime? 00:30:57.534 --> 00:30:59.234 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% No, probably not. 00:30:59.234 --> 00:31:00.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Here is what he said. 00:31:00.701 --> 00:31:04.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Nobody in that room was a certified computer expert. 00:31:04.667 --> 00:31:06.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Anybody that you would actually ever get on the phone 00:31:06.701 --> 00:31:11.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% with as a consumer had no actual background in knowing computers 00:31:11.167 --> 00:31:13.167 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and, you know, really being 00:31:13.167 --> 00:31:16.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% what you would consider a "expert" of computers. 00:31:16.634 --> 00:31:19.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Most of the people that I would say were in there 00:31:19.100 --> 00:31:24.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% were current or ex-alcoholics or drug addicts, 00:31:24.167 --> 00:31:27.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and a very large chunk of them actually were currently living 00:31:27.367 --> 00:31:30.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% in sober facility halfway houses. 00:31:30.234 --> 00:31:33.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% If people knew the inner workings of who they were 00:31:33.467 --> 00:31:35.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% actually speaking to on the phone, 00:31:35.467 --> 00:31:37.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% there's no doubt in my mind that 95% of those people 00:31:37.934 --> 00:31:40.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% would have hung up the phone as soon as they got on with us, 00:31:40.968 --> 00:31:43.367 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% without question. 00:31:43.367 --> 00:31:44.801 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% -And, you know, one of the things -- 00:31:44.801 --> 00:31:47.634 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I can verify this because we were getting lists in Florida. 00:31:47.634 --> 00:31:49.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% When you have a telemarketing room, 00:31:49.234 --> 00:31:50.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% you have to register all of the people 00:31:50.434 --> 00:31:52.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% who work in that room with the state, 00:31:52.234 --> 00:31:54.467 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% so we were getting Freedom of Information Act requests 00:31:54.467 --> 00:31:57.267 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% from them, getting names of hundreds of these people, 00:31:57.267 --> 00:31:59.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and a lot of them had criminal records. 00:31:59.234 --> 00:32:01.367 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% You can look that up. 00:32:01.367 --> 00:32:03.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% These are the people who you're getting on the phone 00:32:03.601 --> 00:32:05.267 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% who take over your computer. 00:32:05.267 --> 00:32:07.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You know, in order to do this, you've got to give them 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:08.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% permission to take over your computer. 00:32:08.801 --> 00:32:12.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The bottom line is it's just something to really avoid, 00:32:12.434 --> 00:32:14.067 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% you know? 00:32:14.067 --> 00:32:15.367 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% FTC filed a law suit, 00:32:15.367 --> 00:32:18.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% got a temporary injunction against them. 00:32:18.501 --> 00:32:22.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% This company took in $120 million in about 2 years 00:32:22.834 --> 00:32:25.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% doing this thing that we've just described, 00:32:25.100 --> 00:32:27.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and there are many more out there. 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:28.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Courtney is going to talk more about them. 00:32:28.868 --> 00:32:32.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I have to say, we've been working with Microsoft on this, 00:32:32.300 --> 00:32:34.534 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and I know they've been working with law enforcement. 00:32:34.534 --> 00:32:36.334 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% Every time I call an AG, they go, "Oh, yeah. 00:32:36.334 --> 00:32:37.901 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% We've worked with a digital crime unit," 00:32:37.901 --> 00:32:39.767 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% you know, "They are really trying" 00:32:39.767 --> 00:32:42.467 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% because a lot of these companies will wrap 00:32:42.467 --> 00:32:45.200 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% the cloak of legitimacy around them by saying, 00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:47.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% "I'm a partner with Microsoft," 00:32:47.701 --> 00:32:49.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and that's an abuse of Microsoft's logo, 00:32:49.767 --> 00:32:52.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but they will -- or some other company, Apple, 00:32:52.067 --> 00:32:55.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "I'm working with Apple," because that legitimizes them, 00:32:55.934 --> 00:32:57.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and it's really hard to keep control 00:32:57.701 --> 00:33:00.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% over all of those claims, but that's what they do. 00:33:00.434 --> 00:33:01.767 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% So how do you avoid it? 00:33:01.767 --> 00:33:04.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Don't download free software to clean your computer. 00:33:04.601 --> 00:33:09.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% If you think it's going slowly, take it down to Best Buy 00:33:09.367 --> 00:33:11.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% or some retail store front, 00:33:11.701 --> 00:33:15.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% a Microsoft store where you've got a technician 00:33:15.234 --> 00:33:18.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% who is certified and who can look at it. 00:33:18.968 --> 00:33:21.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Don't click on pop-ups. A lot of these pop-ups -- 00:33:21.634 --> 00:33:23.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% One of the other versions of this 00:33:23.167 --> 00:33:26.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% that we wrote about in the AARP magazine 00:33:26.334 --> 00:33:29.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% was there is this cloaking device that they use. 00:33:29.467 --> 00:33:32.734 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So you click on a pop-up for, say, dog food. 00:33:32.734 --> 00:33:35.901 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% You're looking for dog food, and it's benign. 00:33:35.901 --> 00:33:39.501 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% You're looking for dog food, right, you Google it. 00:33:39.501 --> 00:33:40.634 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% You click on it. 00:33:40.634 --> 00:33:42.400 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% It's not really an ad for dog food. 00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:44.834 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% There's a cloaking device that makes it look like that ad, 00:33:44.834 --> 00:33:49.067 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and behind that is this thing called the blue screen of death, 00:33:49.067 --> 00:33:50.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and this thing comes up, and just all of a sudden, 00:33:50.667 --> 00:33:52.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% there's a blue screen, and it says, 00:33:52.534 --> 00:33:54.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "Your computer has got a virus," right? 00:33:54.501 --> 00:33:57.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Well, all you did was click on a dog food ad, 00:33:57.267 --> 00:34:01.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and now your thing is shut down, and, "Oh, what do I do," right? 00:34:01.501 --> 00:34:03.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So there's a lot of that going on out here, 00:34:03.667 --> 00:34:06.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and it's really just hard to -- 00:34:06.634 --> 00:34:08.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You know, it's just hard to know. 00:34:08.767 --> 00:34:10.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You can't completely avoid it all the time, 00:34:10.567 --> 00:34:14.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but on this cleaning your PC, clearly the thing to do 00:34:14.601 --> 00:34:17.234 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% is to not respond to pop-up ads, 00:34:17.234 --> 00:34:18.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and if you're concerned, as I said, 00:34:18.501 --> 00:34:20.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% about the speed of your computer, 00:34:20.067 --> 00:34:23.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% take it to an authorized repair place. 00:34:23.467 --> 00:34:25.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Other impostor scams to watch out for -- 00:34:25.334 --> 00:34:27.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I'm not going to go into detail here. 00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I could talk all day about them, but the grandparent scam, 00:34:30.100 --> 00:34:32.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% how many of you have ever gotten that call? 00:34:32.067 --> 00:34:33.968 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Have you? 00:34:33.968 --> 00:34:36.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Someone posing as your grandson in Mexico, 00:34:36.667 --> 00:34:40.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% anybody want to give an example of that, anybody? 00:34:40.200 --> 00:34:41.834 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% -I got one for my nephew, 00:34:41.834 --> 00:34:44.334 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and they had the right first name, 00:34:44.334 --> 00:34:45.968 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% but the voice was not right. 00:34:45.968 --> 00:34:48.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% -Yeah. -So that's what's what threw me. 00:34:48.234 --> 00:34:51.501 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I wasn't able to -- I did talk to him a while. 00:34:51.501 --> 00:34:52.734 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% I said, "Oh. How is Larry?" 00:34:52.734 --> 00:34:57.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% his dad, and he made some, you know, 00:34:57.434 --> 00:35:00.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% comment about how he's fine or something like that, 00:35:00.234 --> 00:35:03.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but the more he talked, the more I was able to realize 00:35:03.834 --> 00:35:05.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% this was not my nephew. -What did he tell you? 00:35:05.701 --> 00:35:07.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Was he trapped somewhere? -Yeah. 00:35:07.567 --> 00:35:09.167 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% He was in Seattle, as a matter of fact. 00:35:09.167 --> 00:35:10.901 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% He was in the police station, 00:35:10.901 --> 00:35:13.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and he needed X number of dollars 00:35:13.801 --> 00:35:16.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% to get himself out of the police station. 00:35:16.200 --> 00:35:17.567 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% He was in Seattle, you know. 00:35:17.567 --> 00:35:19.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Yeah, and so you eventually just hung up on him? 00:35:19.701 --> 00:35:21.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -I did. I did. Yeah. 00:35:21.667 --> 00:35:26.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I felt -- I mean, I even felt guilty for doing so. 00:35:26.234 --> 00:35:27.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Did you call -- -He's my nephew. 00:35:27.701 --> 00:35:29.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Did you call your nephew and verify that he wasn't -- 00:35:29.868 --> 00:35:30.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Well, I wouldn't have called him. 00:35:30.901 --> 00:35:33.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I would have called his dad. -Yeah. 00:35:33.901 --> 00:35:35.367 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% -I don't remember. 00:35:35.367 --> 00:35:38.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It's been a while yet, but I got another one. 00:35:38.434 --> 00:35:40.334 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% The jury -- The not -- 00:35:40.334 --> 00:35:41.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -That was the next one on my list. 00:35:41.367 --> 00:35:42.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Look at this... -Yes, that one. 00:35:42.667 --> 00:35:43.801 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% That one, they got it. 00:35:43.801 --> 00:35:46.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -...fake jury duty. -They got me there. 00:35:46.868 --> 00:35:52.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I -- just exactly what you said about the emotional, the fear. 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% The sheriff was going to come to my door 00:35:54.968 --> 00:35:57.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and put me in the back seat in handcuffs. 00:35:57.434 --> 00:36:03.300 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I could not stand to think of my neighbors watching this happen, 00:36:05.501 --> 00:36:10.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and I race out to my credit union in Tukwila 00:36:10.334 --> 00:36:15.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% to get money for a PayPal card, bought it, sent it off, 00:36:15.701 --> 00:36:18.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and as soon as I sent it off, I relaxed, 00:36:18.100 --> 00:36:20.033 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and I realized what had happened, 00:36:20.033 --> 00:36:21.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and I called the police department, 00:36:21.634 --> 00:36:25.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and they said,"Yeah, that's happening these days." 00:36:25.901 --> 00:36:27.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -So on the one hand, you were relieved, 00:36:27.567 --> 00:36:29.133 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and then right after that, 00:36:29.133 --> 00:36:30.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% you felt horrible that you had been scammed kind of. 00:36:30.934 --> 00:36:32.100 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Yes. -It's kind of a mixed emotion. 00:36:32.100 --> 00:36:34.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -I still feel terrible. -Yeah. 00:36:34.767 --> 00:36:38.367 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -I'm still angry with PayPal for not getting my money back. 00:36:38.367 --> 00:36:40.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Yeah. Yeah. 00:36:40.901 --> 00:36:42.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Yes. -That was a terrible one. 00:36:42.667 --> 00:36:43.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Sorry. -Great story. 00:36:43.868 --> 00:36:45.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Thank you for sharing that. Yes, ma'am? 00:36:45.434 --> 00:36:47.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -The grandparent scam happened to my dad 00:36:47.234 --> 00:36:49.934 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% when I happened to be visiting him, 00:36:49.934 --> 00:36:53.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and one thing that my son, supposed son, said was, 00:36:53.601 --> 00:36:57.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "Please don't tell my mother. Don't call them," 00:36:57.400 --> 00:36:59.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and even though my father had read about this scam 00:36:59.801 --> 00:37:03.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% in Consumer Reports, he still fell for it. 00:37:03.501 --> 00:37:04.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Oh. He did? 00:37:04.901 --> 00:37:06.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -He went to Western Union, and luckily he had wrote down 00:37:06.834 --> 00:37:09.667 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% the wrong phone number or something, 00:37:09.667 --> 00:37:12.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and so he didn't send the money. 00:37:12.267 --> 00:37:13.534 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Oh. -But he -- 00:37:13.534 --> 00:37:16.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% What amazed me was he had heard about this scam, 00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:19.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but he still thought this time it wasn't a scam. 00:37:19.067 --> 00:37:21.100 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% It sounded so much like my son. 00:37:21.100 --> 00:37:23.567 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -Yeah, and they have different ways of doing that, like, 00:37:23.567 --> 00:37:25.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "Grandpa," and then you say the name, 00:37:25.133 --> 00:37:27.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and now, they're, "Yes. This is David. 00:37:27.267 --> 00:37:30.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Yeah. My name is David." Right, right, very clever. 00:37:30.901 --> 00:37:32.334 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Yes, sir? 00:37:32.334 --> 00:37:38.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -I even had a call questioning the last name of my mother. 00:37:38.701 --> 00:37:43.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Well, I don't know how they got my name, 00:37:43.968 --> 00:37:47.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and they wanted to have more information about my mother, 00:37:47.467 --> 00:37:52.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and I says, "You know, she was born in the Ukraine. 00:37:52.267 --> 00:37:54.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% She immigrated to South America," 00:37:54.467 --> 00:37:57.501 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and "What was her maiden name?" 00:37:57.501 --> 00:38:02.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So I said to them, "You know, the maiden name was Lenin. 00:38:02.334 --> 00:38:05.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% She was a cousin, you know, of Vladimir Ilyich Lenin 00:38:05.868 --> 00:38:08.200 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% who ran the communist revolution." 00:38:08.200 --> 00:38:10.667 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% [ Laughter ] 00:38:14.367 --> 00:38:16.534 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% -Now you're playing with him. You're playing with him, right? 00:38:16.534 --> 00:38:21.434 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% -And the guy said, "Actually, you know, my name, Louis, 00:38:21.434 --> 00:38:23.033 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% well, thank you very much. 00:38:23.033 --> 00:38:31.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It was a pleasure to talk to you," and he hung up. 00:38:31.133 --> 00:38:34.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% -So you saw that coming, but what were they doing there? 00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:36.434 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Why did they want the maiden name? 00:38:36.434 --> 00:38:37.701 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% What do you think? 00:38:37.701 --> 00:38:39.200 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% -I don't think they got to that 00:38:39.200 --> 00:38:41.267 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% because they couldn't get to the maiden 00:38:41.267 --> 00:38:43.033 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% so they really asked me, 00:38:43.033 --> 00:38:45.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and I said, "I'll give them the story." 00:38:45.801 --> 00:38:48.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% So when I assumed there was more than that, 00:38:48.467 --> 00:38:50.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% when they heard the story, they said, 00:38:50.234 --> 00:38:55.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% "Well, this guy probably won't work with this guy," you know. 00:38:55.501 --> 00:38:56.767 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% -All I was going to point out 00:38:56.767 --> 00:38:59.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% there was that's a phishing scam because -- 00:38:59.767 --> 00:39:02.133 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and the reason they want the maiden name is often that 00:39:02.133 --> 00:39:05.234 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% is a security question on your Facebook account 00:39:05.234 --> 00:39:07.601 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% or some other social media account, 00:39:07.601 --> 00:39:11.734 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% and, you know, we had this conversation last night 00:39:11.734 --> 00:39:16.067 align:middle line:00% position:50% size:90% when I was talking to some folks about David Morros -- 00:39:16.067 --> 00:39:17.267 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% Raise your hand, David. 00:39:17.267 --> 00:39:19.067 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% David is a new volunteer from Tennessee. 00:39:19.067 --> 00:39:21.334 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% He's going to volunteer for us for the Fraud Watch Network 00:39:21.334 --> 00:39:23.334 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% and an expert in cyber crime, 00:39:23.334 --> 00:39:25.601 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and we were talking about Facebook, 00:39:25.601 --> 00:39:28.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and he and I were both going, "Yeah. We don't use Facebook. 00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:32.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% It's just --" because Facebook is where 00:39:32.234 --> 00:39:34.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% a lot of personal information gets posted, 00:39:34.801 --> 00:39:37.200 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and if you don't have your privacy settings right -- 00:39:37.200 --> 00:39:39.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I'm not an expert on Facebook, but I can just tell you 00:39:39.467 --> 00:39:44.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% as a crime prevention person a lot of the scammers -- 00:39:44.467 --> 00:39:46.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I mean, we interviewed an ID thief a couple years ago 00:39:46.834 --> 00:39:47.968 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% who would just go on -- 00:39:47.968 --> 00:39:49.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% That's the first thing she would do 00:39:49.467 --> 00:39:50.901 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% when she was trying to target somebody 00:39:50.901 --> 00:39:55.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% is go onto their Facebook page and find out birth dates, 00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:58.400 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% names of relatives, maiden names, 00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:00.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% all things that you want to share about yourself 00:40:00.701 --> 00:40:03.834 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% just because it's Facebook, and you want to share yourself, 00:40:03.834 --> 00:40:07.868 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% but they can use that then to hack in, 00:40:07.868 --> 00:40:09.467 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% so Face -- I don't know how we got -- 00:40:09.467 --> 00:40:11.634 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Thank you for those stories, though, very helpful. 00:40:11.634 --> 00:40:13.367 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% A lottery/prize scam, 00:40:13.367 --> 00:40:16.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% anybody know someone who's gotten a lot of these mailers? 00:40:16.968 --> 00:40:20.234 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% I continually worry about these older folks, in particular. 00:40:20.234 --> 00:40:21.968 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Our research has shown that that's -- 00:40:21.968 --> 00:40:24.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% A lot of older folks get these lottery scams, 00:40:24.501 --> 00:40:26.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and then the last on is the government grant scheme. 00:40:26.501 --> 00:40:29.801 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% You've just won, you know, an $8,000 grant for free. 00:40:29.801 --> 00:40:32.701 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% All you have to do is pay, you know, $250, 00:40:32.701 --> 00:40:37.767 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% and we'll send you your $8,000 free grant money, 00:40:37.767 --> 00:40:40.000 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% so that just preys on, you know, gullibility. 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:43.501 align:middle line:87% position:50% size:90% Most of them are trying to get you into the emotional state. 00:40:43.501 --> 00:40:47.968 align:middle line:93% position:50% size:90% ♪♪