Working for a safe, affordable, vibrant, innovative, and interconnected city.
Learn More
Seattle.gov Home Page
Seattle.gov This Department
Link to the Office of Film + Music Home Page Link to Office of Film + Music Home Page Link to Office of Film + Music About Us Page Link to Office of Film + Music Contact Us Page
Kate Becker, Director Stephen H. Johnson, Director, Office of Economic Development

Film Home
Film Permits
Film Manual
Film FAQ
Film Resources
Film History
Film Events & Festivals
Economic Impact Study
Mayor's Film Award

Music Home
City of Music Website
Music Directory
Music History & Map
Music Events & Festivals
Economic Impact Study

Interactive
Seattle's Content Technology Initiative

 Networking
Happy Hour Events
News
News from the Film + Music Office 5/21/2008


TELL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT THIS NEWSLETTER!
http://seattle.gov/filmandmusic/
Help spread the word about Seattle's burgeoning film and music industry! Tell your friends and colleagues to sign up for our weekly newsletter on our front page!

OFFICE NEWS

HAPPY HOUR ONE WEEK AWAY!
http://seattle.gov/filmandmusic/happyhour/
The Seattle Office of Film + Music is proud to present Happy Hour at Moe Bar (925 E. Pike St.) from 5 to 7 pm on Wednesday, May 28th. Come down, meet new people in our music and film industries and discuss current issues spanning film and music in Seattle. We have received a lot of great feedback regarding new business opportunities that have come from these events, so don't miss out. The Happy Hour schedule for 2008 can be found on the website.

INDUSTRY NEWS AND UPDATES

SIFF BEGINS!
battleinseattle http://www.siff.net/festival/
The 34th Annual Seattle International Film Festival kicks off Thursday May 22nd, with a screening of "Battle in Seattle." Comprised of over 400 films from dozens of countries screening over the course of 25 days, SIFF is one of the leading independent and international film institutions in the United States and the world.

ADMINISTRATIVE INTERNSHIP PROGRAM OPENING AT NWFF
http://www.nwfilmforum.org/internships
Northwest Film Forum, a Seattle non-profit arts organization running two cinemas, producing films, aiding filmmakers and offering film workshops, seeks part-time administrative interns. Interns will work in the Northwest Film Forum office, the nerve center of the organization, closely interacting with all members of the staff. Interns will be expected to execute vital, hands-on tasks that intersect with every aspect of the organization. A passion for film is essential. Knowledge of film production or exhibition is encouraged, but not required. Candidates must have basic computer skills, be personable, self motivated, and excellent communicators, and able to complete tasks assigned. Beginning June 16, this position requires a minimum three month commitment for 20 hours a week. Schedule is negotiable, but is during business hours.

DNDA's DELRIDGE DAY: BRIDGING COMMUNITY THROUGH ARTS AND RESOURCES IS ON MAY 31!
http://www.youngstownarts.org/
This all day celebration will feature a resources fair, creative arts workshops, youth performances, a mural project, and delicious local food. People of all ages are invited to participate in workshops ranging from circus arts to African drumming. In addition, the artist residents will curate a exhibit of their work and facilitate the Art Lending Library, which gives community members an opportunity to borrow art pieces for free installation in their homes for two months at a time. Volunteers are still needed, so if you are interested in helping out contact Programming Coordinator Estrella de Leon at estrellad@dnda.org.

FACE THE MUSIC AT SIFF
http://www.siff.net/festival/
Each year, SIFF presents a series of films that bring great music to the screen and portray the fascinating faces and stories behind the sound. The 8 new documentaries featured here provide windows into the personal worlds of masters, unsung heroes, and raw talents. They explore musical styles from around the globe ranging from the art of the Tango in Argentina, to the creative process behind virtual hip-hop band Gorillaz.

WORLD PREMIERE OF SNUFF AT SEATTLE'S CENTRAL CINEMA AS PART OF STIFF
http://www.killingjokefilms.com/
Seattle True Independent Film Festival (STIFF) will be screening the World Premiere of SNUFF: a documentary about killing on camera produced by Killing Joke Films.

CHRISTOPHER DELAURENTI: FOUR PROTEST SYMPHONIES
http://www.ubu.com/sound/
To celebrate May Day and the 40th anniversary of May '68, UbuWeb is pleased to present four full-length audio pieces based on various protest actions by this Seattle-based composer, including "N30: Live at the WTO Protest, November 30, 1999." On that date, armed with a portable digital audio tape deck and two microphones, DeLaurenti ventured into the streets of Seattle to record the heady and harrowing protest against the World Trade Organization.

PARAMORE, BAND OF HORSES AND OTHERS JOIN LINE-UP!
http://www.bumbershoot.org/
Bumbershoot: Seattle's Music & Arts Festival has announced the additions of The All-American Rejects, Paramore, Band of Horses, The Black Keys, Sons & Daughters and Estelle to the Labor Day weekend line-up. Along with the announcement, it was confirmed that Ludacris has canceled his appearance due to scheduling conflicts. The Festival will unfold at Seattle Center, August 30 - September 1. The entire line-up will be fully released by mid-July.

JACK STRAW PRODUCTIONS SEEKS ADMINISTRATIVE COORDINATOR
http://www.jackstraw.org/
Jack Straw Productions is hiring an administrative coordinator to provide office, development, finance, program, and studio support. They seek a friendly, creative, and detail-oriented person who is able to multitask and problem-solve with a minimal amount of direction, but who also works well as part of a team. He/she must be comfortable with technology and familiar with office systems. As the first point of contact with the public (callers and visitors), the administrative coordinator plays an important role in communicating JSP's mission and in providing public information. Send a cover letter and resume by June 9th to opportunities@jackstraw.org.

ARTIST TRUST SEEKS INTERNS
http://www.artisttrust.org/
Artist Trust seeks interns for their Development and Programs Departments. Interns receive a free one-year Artist Trust membership, free entry to any public Artist Trust event, and a peek into the organization and the artists and resources in Washington state. See link above for more information.

LOCAL FILM INVITES YOU TO BECOME COOL
http://www.essentialnewdiscoveries.com/
Steve Edmiston, director of the upcoming indie comedy "The Day My Parents Became Cool" is asking for help in completing the film's fundraising. Thus their "Become Cool" campaign began. In exchange for a tax-deductible (thanks to their sponsorship by local non-profit the Northwest Film Forum) donation of $100, the crew will put your name in the credits of the film, officially confirming your status as a cool person. Click the link above to contribute via credit card, or email sedmiston@invictalaw.com for more information regarding donations.

WATCH "DECOYS" ONLINE
http://petalfilms.com/
In addition to Seattle-based Petal Films' first film "Miss Shellagh's Miniskirt" being screened at STIFF next month, an investor preview of their next film "Decoys" is now available online. You can view it online at the link above.

BARSUK SIGNS RA RA RIOT
http://www.barsuk.com/
Syracuse, NY-based quintet Ra Ra Riot has signed to Seattle's Barsuk Records. The group's debut full length, "The Rhumb Line," will be released in North America on August 19th, 2008, and in Europe (on V2) later this fall. The band, formed in January 2006, has quickly gained a devoted following and has toured extensively in the US and abroad. NME honored them as one of the Top 10 bands at SXSW 2007, and their self-titled EP has garnered acclaim from Rolling Stone, Nylon, Spin.com, NPR, and many others.

RISING STAR SERIES, FEATURING TREVOR WHITE
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/
On Tuesday May 22nd, enjoy an evening of film, food and fun at Magnolia Audio Video's Rising Star Series, featuring today's most promising artistic talent from around the nation. Trevor White, an award-winning young filmmaker from Annapolis, Md., will be showcasing three of his short films for attendees. The event will also feature winetasting from award-winning Cannonball Wine Company, and goodie bags from VIP gifting company, Madison & Mulholland. In addition to the films shown by White, digital art projects of Boys & Girls Club of King County members will also be showcased.

FILM JOURNALISM ALIVE AND WELL AS SIFF 2008 APPROACHES
http://film.prostamerika.com/
As North America's biggest and best film festival approaches, Seattle's film journalism sector is expanding. Sites such as SIFFBlog, Prost Amerika and cincity2000.com, have been hard at work to get those reviews up so that the city's filmgoers can make the most informed choices possible. Prost Amerika has already posted 50 reviews of films coming up at SIFF and is aiming to make it to a hundred before the festival is over. You can see some of their reviews and interviews at the link above.

INTERN WITH THE GRAMMYS!
http://www.grammy.com/Recording_Academy
The Recording Academy Pacific NW Chapter is looking for an intern for Summer quarter. Help plan parties for the Seattle music community and educational opportunities for local high schools and universities. If you're looking to get a job in the music industry when you graduate, an internship with The Recording Academy will put you on the right path. Internship runs June - August, and is 20 hours a week; some evening and weekend work may be required. You must be an enrolled student and receive college credit for this internship. To apply, contact 206.834.1000 or meaghan.massoth@grammy.com.

NWFF ANNOUNCES SUMMER WORKSHOPS
http://www.nwfilmforum.org/
Film Forum classes and workshops are designed to instruct filmmakers on both the mechanical skills required in current filmmaking technology and the artistic application of tools to explore the critical and emotional range of the cinematic experience. Classes and workshops are taught by working artists: filmmakers, writers, producers and editors.

EVENT HELPERS NEEDED FOR WOMEN IN FILM PARTY AT SIFF
http://www.womeninfilm-seattle.org/
Von Piglet Productions is organizing a Women in Film party (for members and guests) in honor of Julia Sweeney (from Saturday Night Live) who will have her film shown in the festival. They will be having the party at their new office on Capitol Hill and could use helpers for hosting the party. Please let Sue Corcoran (sue@vonpiglet.com) know if you are interested in helping out with this great chance to make WIF shine and to network at SIFF.

SEATTLE FILM CRITICS ASSOCIATION
http://www.cincity2000.com/
Mike Caccioppoli of CinCity2000.com has acquired the interest of other local critics who have agreed to join the new Seattle Film Critics Association (SFCA). Writers from Prost Amerika, SIFF Blog, and Kinofest.de have already agreed to sign up and Mike is hoping to acquire more. Mike previously helped found the Las Vegas Film Critics Society which has been running since 1997. For more details, email Mike at SeattleFilmCriticsAssociation@yahoo.com or Steve at film@prostamerika.com.

SAG 75TH ANNIVERSARY PARTY
http://www.sag.org/
The Screen Actors Guild is putting together an event that won't soon be forgotten with live music by Judy Ann Moulton singing new arrangements of favorite Judy Garland songs. She will be accompanied by Swing Session, a 16 piece swing band who will also open and close the evening.

GOAT CD RELEASE CONCERT
http://www.gregsinibaldi.com/
Co-sponsored by the Mayor's Office of Arts and Cultural Affairs, the Seattle-based electro-acoustic trio Goat will be celebrating the release of their debut album "Special Agent" with a concert and party on Saturday May 31st at LoFi Performance Gallery. The CD will be available on Present Sounds.

SEATTLE MUSIC FOLK RAISE MONEY FOR LEUKEMIA-LYMPHOMA SOCIETY
http://westseattleblog.com/
Megan Jasper (general manager of Sub Pop records), Steve Manning (publicity director of Sub Pop), and Kerry Murphy (independent writer-promoter) are participating in the Team in Training triathlon series for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. In three weeks, they've got a race in Hawaii, and they're still raising pledge and sponsorship money. They're raising it online but they decided to get right out into the middle of the Sunday crowds, with West 5's support. Click the link above to hear their pitch to the masses.

TOP 10 NW MUSIC FOR THE WEEK OF 5/12 - 5/18
http://www.seattle.gov/filmandmusic
Compiled from figures at Sonic Boom (Ballard and Capitol Hill) and Easy Street (West Seattle and Queen Anne).

  1. Death Cab for Cutie - Narrow Stairs
  2. Fleet Foxes - Sun Giant
  3. Bill Frisell - History, Mystery
  4. Sera Cahoone - Only as the Day is Long
  5. Helio Sequence - Keep Your Eyes Ahead
  6. Grand Archives - Grand Archives
  7. KPLU School of Jazz - Volume 4
  8. KPLU School of Jazz - Volume 3
  9. Eddie Vedder - Into the Wild
  10. Brandi Carlile - Live at Easy Street

MEDIA DIGEST

SEATTLE'S ROOSEVELT, GARFIELD TOP TWO AT ESSENTIALLY ELLINGTON FESTIVAL
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/
Roosevelt High School placed first and Garfield got second place at this weekend's Essentially Ellington high-school competition, widely regarded as the Cadillac of jazz competitions. Shorewood (from Shoreline) won an honorable mention. Some had wondered if the Puget Sound area would sweep the contest this year; out of 15 finalists chosen nationally, five were local. No region has ever sent five bands to Ellington before.

THE GITS' MIA ZAPATA MEMORIALIZED IN DOCUMENTARY
miazapata http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/
Seattle punks the Gits, led by riot grrrl par excellence Mia Zapata, were at the height of their powers in 1993 when a single inhuman act brought their promising trajectory to an abrupt halt. The legacy of the Gits and the circumstances surrounding Zapata's untimely passing are examined in depth in "The Gits," a feature-length documentary that has been making the festival rounds and will soon hit a theater and/or DVD player near you. Directed by California filmmaker Kerri O'Kane and packed with rare footage of the Gits' formative years, "The Gits" will screen at theaters around North America in the coming months, with a DVD release scheduled for July 8th.

EMOTIONAL "GHETTO SONGS" PREMIERED IN SEATTLE
http://www.seattlesoundmag.com/
In a talk before last Monday's Music of Remembrance concert composer Paul Schoenfield said, "I don't think my music aspires to be anything more [than entertainment]." Schoenfield's assertion probably startled the handful of people who had arrived to hear the composer talk about the primary piece on the night's program, the composer's own "Ghetto Songs," his second work commissioned by Music of Remembrance. The first piece, "Camp Songs," was performed earlier this decade and was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in music. For both works, Schoenfield used poems penned during the Holocaust.

NIGHTLIFE CRACKDOWN CONTINUES: CITY FORCES NEUMO'S TO REDUCE CAPACITY
http://slog.thestranger.com/
In recent weeks, the city has been cracking down on Capitol Hill's nightlife. Club owners and bartenders say they've repeatedly been harassed by Seattle Police, the Fire Marshal's office and other city agencies. Now, Neumo's-Capitol Hill's largest live music venue-is catching heat from the city over their crowd capacity.

"SEATTLE"S BIGGEST CULT BAND' WRAPS UP A 26-YEAR CAREER
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/
In the world of experimental fringe music, the Sun City Girls are practically nobility. Their influence on modern music is unquantifiable, rippling through new-folk music, improvisational music and, on a broader level, the way in which modern American bands absorb international influences. They have been labeled "Seattle's biggest cult band" and "America's premier underground band" -- but this year, their 26-year reign will see its conclusion.

DEATH CAB IS UP FOR THE LONG HAUL
http://www.nytimes.com/
The New York Times describes "postgrunge Seattle," as a place "where eclecticism rules - as if there has been a decree that no unifying trend should ever again emerge and bring national attention and thousands of Angelenos to town again." They also say that "Death Cab's misty chords and cold steel hooks are as much a musical center as the town has these days."

STINGING REBUKE: HIGH-PROFILE NIGHTLIFE RAIDS FAIL TO WIN A SINGLE CONVICTION
http://www.thestranger.com/
Nine months after the city's series of raids on bars and nightclubs (code-named Operation Sobering Thought-City) Attorney Tom Carr's office has yet to win a single conviction. Several of the cases have been tossed out for problems with evidence, while others have been bargained down to a slap on the wrist. The city attorney's office still claims the operation was a success, but several attorneys representing bouncers and bartenders arrested in the raids say the city simply gave up and settled a number of cases it knew it couldn't win.

REGGIE WATTS SHARES THE LOVE IN SILLY MUSICAL SENDUPS
reggiewatts http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/
Alternative comedian/musician Reggie Watts, a Seattle-to-New York transplant, returns home next week for four shows at the Triple Door. Watts raises being weird to such ridiculous, unpredictable heights that the only natural reaction is laughter. His is a form of comedy that mines the humor inherent in making noises with your mouth. He is perhaps Seattle's most versatile vocalist and second most popular beatboxer (after Blake Lewis, he concedes).

DOWN-TO-EARTH DENNEN TO SHARE HIS ROCKER SIDE
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/
Seattle is Brett Dennen's kind of town. Not only was KMTT-FM/The Mountain the first station in the country to put his song "She's Mine" onto its playlist, but he's also played here several times over the past two years, including Bumbershoot 2006, a gig at Chop Suey and opening for Damien Rice at Benaroya. He returns for his biggest one yet, headlining Saturday at the Showbox at the Market.

BOTHELL'S DAVID MORGAN IS THE GO-TO GUY FOR INDIANA JONES' HANDCRAFTED BULLWHIPS
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/
Bothell businessman David Morgan is bracing himself for the release of "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" and the onslaught of orders rolling his way. Morgan, 82, designed and handcrafted more than 30 of the now-legendary bullwhips cracked by Indiana Jones in the first three movies. And his company, David Morgan Inc., has provided eight of the whips used in the new release, which begins showing at midnight Wednesday.

LICK!'S NOT DEAD!
http://www.seattlesoundmag.com/
Back in December of 2007, resident DJs Mathematix and Dewey Decimal hosted what was their final goodbye to supporters of their monthly queer/all-inclusive ("for dykes, trannies, fags, and friends") dance nights. Thankfully, on Wednesday, May 7th, LICK! came back to life by popular demand for its 3rd birthday bash at Chop Suey. DJ Mathematix adds, "Yes, LICK!'s not dead and there will be more LICK!'s to look forward to. Expect a Saturday night in August with more details to come."

CREW OF DOCUMENTARY "SWEET CRUDE" TALKS ABOUT DETENTION IN NIGERIA
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/
The Seattle-based documentary film crew that was detained by Nigerian police for six days in April hosted an open discussion Monday night at the University of Washington about the importance of protecting free speech and basic human rights both at home and abroad. The crew and some guests spoke to roughly 200 students, professors and community members. They hope their experience in Nigeria will draw attention to the destructive impact of oil production in the Niger River Delta and to the more general problem of maintaining human rights both domestically and internationally.

SEATTLENOISE: KELLY HARLAND
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/
Seattle-based vocalist Kelly Harland began her singing career at 16 in front of an audience of 3,000 at the Hollywood Bowl, after winning a contest for young California musicians. Today, Harland is among the top studio and background vocalists in Seattle, singing on hundreds of commercials. She also has recorded for Epic and A&M Records and is married to Seattle jazz musician Chuck Deardorf.

ANATOMY OF A MARK MORRIS MASTERPIECE
http://crosscut.com/arts-beat/
Mark Morris brings his glorious ballet adaptation of Handel's Allegro-Penseroso to the Paramount, in collaboration with the Seattle Symphony. This amazing work, which defiantly launched Morris' international career in 1988, still gracefully bears its heavy reputation.

GEORGETOWN MUSIC FESTIVAL LINE-UP ANNOUNCED
http://lineout.thestranger.com/
The Georgetown Music Fest (now it in its fourth year) has announced the line-up for their upcoming party set to take place June 13th and 14th. More bands will be announced in the coming weeks. You can check for updates and info at www.myspace.com/georgetownmusicfest.

MARK ARM TALKS "SUPERFUZZ BIGMUFF"
http://www.seattlesoundmag.com/
While other bands that thrived during Seattle's early-90s rock boon faded into obscurity or imploded due to drugs, death or both, one band never strayed from their noisy, edge-of-underground path-and continues to thrive 20 years later. Mudhoney frontman Mark Arm talks to Seattle Sound Magazine about the "deluxe edition" reissue of Mudhoney's debut EP, "Superfuzz Bigmuff," and the band's legacy in general.

DEATH CAB FOR CUTIE SCORES FIRST NO. 1 ALBUM
http://www.billboard.com/
Death Cab For Cutie claims its first No. 1 album as "Narrow Stairs" starts at the top slot on the Billboard 200. The Atlantic set moved 144,000 copies in the U.S., according to Nielsen Soundscan. Death Cab's prior album, 2005's "Plans," debuted at No. 4 with 90,000 and spent 50 weeks on the chart.

THE GREENEST GUIDE TO SASQUATCH! 2008
http://www.seattleweekly.com/
With Sasquatch this weekend, Seattle Weekly has launched a blog specifically devoted to guiding festival-goers through the three-day music extravaganza at the Gorge.

SIFF GENERIS: AN INTRODUCTION AND TAXONOMY TO THIS YEAR'S FEST
http://seattleweekly.com/
To help you navigate the expansive and overwhelming schedule, SIFF has traditionally divided up its offerings into a dozen-odd subsidiary categories. These may once have made sense to the overworked, sleep-deprived festival curators, but Seattle Weekly would like to offer their own "more useful taxonomy."

ARTIST SIGNINGS AT SASQUATCH
http://threeimaginarygirls.com/
Easy Street is heading to the Gorge this weekend and they've lined up some pretty great artist signings for the folks to enjoy. Their booth will be just up from the Mainstage on the right, so stop by for a signing or just to say hi.

HOW TO SET UP A PIRATE RADIO STATION
http://howto.wired.com/
Thanks to the free flow of information on the web, anyone can start their own pirate radio station. Here's all you need to become your city's favorite underground shock jock.

NAPSTER GOES DRM-FREE
http://www.punknews.org/
Napster, the P2P pioneer reborn as a digital music store has opted to switch to DRM-free MP3s for their entire six million song library. The store claims to be 50% larger than any other MP3 store and touts the largest major label MP3 catalog in the industry, as well as the largest library of independent music available anywhere. Pricing for download sales will remain the same.

COURTNEY LOVE CLARIFIES NEW ALBUM STATUS
http://www.billboard.com/
Courtney Love has taken to her MySpace blog to refute an online report that she'd scrapped work on her next studio album. Instead, Love says the Linda Perry-produced set will be turned in to the latter's Custard label by mid-July. "No 'scrapping' is going on, simply a few retakes, especially since all those recordings were leaked to the Net," Love writes.

ARTISTS FIGHT FOR NEW HI-FI FORMATS
http://www.rollingstone.com/
High-fidelity audio may be endangered in the age of MP3, but a growing number of artists are refusing to see it die without a fight: Neil Young, Trent Reznor, John Mellencamp and T Bone Burnett have all joined the battle recently, embracing sound formats that are superior to both MP3s and CDs.

THE RIAA EXPLAINS HOW IT CATCHES ALLEGED MUSIC PIRATES
http://chronicle.com/
To catch college students trading copyrighted songs online, the Recording Industry Association of America uses the same file-sharing software that online pirates love, an RIAA representative told The Chronicle at the organization's offices during a private demonstration of how it catches alleged music pirates. He also said the group does not single out specific colleges in its investigations.

AMAZON.COM INVESTS IN ANIMOTO
http://seattle.bizjournals.com/
Amazon.com Inc. has given an undisclosed amount of funding to Animoto, a New York-based web tool that allows users to create videos from their photos and music. Animoto.com launched in August 2007 and in March, signed a deal to have its application on social networking site Facebook.com. Animoto officials said they use the Seattle retail giant's Amazon Web Services system for the company's technical infrastructure requirements.

THE BLAKES RELEASE ITUNES-ONLY EP
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/
Local band The Blakes have been hard at work writing new songs for the follow up to their self-titled debut. Three of those new tracks are ready for listening as part of an iTunes exclusive EP available for download now.

DAVE MATTHEWS BAND STILL PLUGGING AWAY ON NEW CD
http://www.billboard.com/
The Dave Matthews Band is still a long way from releasing their next album, their first since 2005's "Stand Up." The group got together early in the year in Charlottesville, Va., to start working on ideas, then in March continued in Seattle to be closer to Matthews' home. The songs have since been composed and are now waiting for Matthews to write lyrics, with a plan to return to the studio after the group comes off the road in early September.

CLOUDTRADE: FREE, LEGAL MUSIC SHARING ON YOUR SMARTPHONE
http://blog.wired.com/music/
CloudTrade has announced that music from its first two label deals is now available for trading on its mobile file-sharing network. Users can trade about 250 songs from CloudTrade's label partners: ATO Records (Radiohead's U.S. CD distributor) and the jam-band-friendly Sci Fidelity Records.

TOP 10 ISSUES FACING MUSIC 2.0
http://www.hypebot.com/
Here, in no particular order, are what Hypebot.com believe to be the Top 10 issues shaping Music 2.0. In their words, "How they develop will determine what the music industry looks in 5 or 10 years. Ignore them at you peril."